Capacitor for sound system??? - Toyota Yaris Forums

ECHOKnight2000 · 10-26-2006, 04:19 PM

Okay, so I had my sound system for over two years, aftermarket speakers, headunit, sub and amp...I have a scanguage II and if I go to the battery volt read out, it varies (the voltage), is that normal? According to the Scanguage II booklet the battery when the car is operating should be between 13 and 15 volts I want to say. Anyway mine fluctuates from around 14v to low 13v and it hasn't happend often but sometimes my gauge cluster lights flicker and dim down, but like I said its not often. Sometimes the volts are consistant. My co-worker and I looked at my amp and he said it didn't look like there was any place to attatch the capacitor, also I told him about the fluctuating and inconsistancy of it being and he said it could be the alternator not charging the battery properly, but I'm not sure?? I looked at my amp and I don't know the model number and what not cause it doesn't say, its just a Kenwood 640watt 4-channel amp...obviously it powers the speakers, my sub is self-powered as I don't see any cables going to the amp that's next to it (I got it professionally installed). Up to this point I've been fine and when I go for oil changes the dealer apparently checks the battery load and it passes.
Sorry for the novel.
Any help or suggestions or personally experience appreciated! Thanks!

07WYarisRS · 10-26-2006, 04:48 PM

A cap goes inline on you main 12V power to the amp. As close to the amp as possible.
It can't hurt and may help with the power dips and lights dimming.

The battery on the yaris are small and not really desinged for high powered audio system. The alternator is also small and designed to run the cars electrics and keep a fully charged batter fully charged.

So if you add a powerful amp to the system it's going to dim the lights and cause power surges. Again a cap can help.
I run a cap on my 300w mono amp, without it I got some dimming of the lights and distortion at high volume levels. With the cap there is still some dimming but it's a lot better and the sound quality is better.

bigsky2 · 10-26-2006, 05:52 PM

No No No guys!

A cap is not the answer! Well, not the short term immediate answer that many people hope it to be...

When your supply current is sufficient, a cap will be useful and advantageous.

But if your supply current is limited, because of the moderate alternator, moderate battery, and the stress of all electrical components, a capacitor will only drain more power. A cap is no different than an electrical component in the vehicle, it will draw power.

What I am trying to say is, do not install a cap and expect it to solve your problems.

I strongly suggest the following (before getting a cap):

- Reground your vehicle's ground connections
- Consider retooling/reworking your alternator to increase the output
- Add a second alternator OR
- Replace stock alternator with a high output alternator
- Add a second battery OR
- Replace stock battery

When you have sufficient supply current, a cap will prove to be more useful.

In terms of the amperage pull on amps, you can use this rough equation to determine the total amperage draw. Take the total RMS power of your amps and divide by 12.5~13 (car's idle voltage) to determine the total amperage pull of your amps.

Eg.
4ch Amp - 600W RMS
Mono Amp - 400W RMS
Divide by 12.5V
Equals = 80A

If it exceeds 90A, then I think you run the risk of damaging the alternator

The Yaris stock alternator only outouts 80A, if I remember correctly.

ChinoCharles · 10-26-2006, 08:40 PM

Cousin vitz knows his shitz.

bigsky2 · 10-26-2006, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChinoCharles

Cousin vitz knows his shitz.

That's because Uncle Yaris is my master.

ECHOKnight2000 · 10-26-2006, 10:28 PM

Thanks guys for the info and heads up! I really do appreciate it!
Not to make things too "complicated" however you want to see it, I have an ECHO sedan not a Yaris, well at least not second gen

I'm in the U.S. so I have the same engine (obviously tweaked for the second gen but pretty much the same) as most of you in N/A. The reason I asked on this board is well...its active, certainly more than the ECHO boards or at Toyotanation, and its a general question so...
Also I have the "all weather package" that came with the car, I don't know if that makes a difference, its a heavy duty battery and alternator, but like I said maybe that's just a sales gimmick??

When I look at the alternator and battery they do look quite a bit "bigger" so I do believe they are for heavy duty activity, at least weather wise. Also I forgot to mention I have aftermarket extra driving Pilot lights and there bright! Anyway I know that puts a load on the battery, at least one of the variables.

bigsky2, so capacitors are only good if you have enough power? I thought it was the opposite...I know for more elaborate sound systems with 2, 12" subs and the works need capacitors so it doesn't drain the battery or whatever...so its the opposite? I'm confused? My co-worker said he got a capacitor for his amp that powers the subs but he waited too long so it damaged the alternator or burned it out?? So if I get an extra alternator or battery where do I put it? So I can go to a auto shop and order a high power alternator? Is that the same as a heavy duty one? As you can see I"m a total noob at this and I don't know what I'm doing at all! I would have to get it professionally taken care of, as far as electrical stuff. Keep the info and suggestions coming! Again thanks for your patients and help!

mikeukrainetz · 10-26-2006, 10:56 PM

visit http://www.the12volt.com for some hardcore advice on anything related to car electronics. its a great site that would be somewhat advantagous to anyone looking to add or trouble shoot a system.

johnnyfive · 10-26-2006, 11:29 PM

at your original problem, 13 volts is nothing to worry about.

a capasitor will store energy, and fead it to your amps when ever they demand more than is being supplied by your alt.
everytime you see your lights dim your amp is drawing more current than your alternator can supply, and this is where the cap would give your amp more juice, instead of your car taking it from your battery. But everytime a capacitor feeds power to your amps, it will then demand to be refilled by your alternator, causing a higher draw after the amp demands it, instead of when the amp demands it. The prper fix would be to supply enough current to your amps in the first place (high output alt.) although a capacitor may fix some minor problems because it will idealy be recharging when the amp is not demanding extra current, and will only be taking surplus current that would have been going to your amp...(like the amp wants extra current when the bass hits, but dosnt want any when the bass isnt hitting, so the cap will give it more when it hits, and then recharge when the bass isnt hitting)

sorry i am not good at explaning things, but in short a capacitor may be a bandaid for a minor electrical shortage, but if your circit needs surgery you will not be helping anything by just putting a bandaid on it, and not fully attending to the problem :)

Capacitors are not the godsend fix all that some people make them out to be, but at the same time people bash on them way to hard...

but again in your case, 13 volts really wont hurt anything...

DARKYARIS · 10-26-2006, 11:43 PM

Upgraded to an Optima Gel cell .....and , Yup ...capicitor as close as possible to amp. No dimming lights !!!

johnnyfive · 10-27-2006, 12:46 AM

i think you just got the red top so it matches your scheame :)

07WYarisRS · 10-27-2006, 01:09 AM

The optima red top is a cranking battery
Desinged to put out large amounts of power in short bursts.
This is needed for starting engines and works will with any cars electrical system and audio system.

The yellow top battery is a deep cycle battery. Great for off road lights, hydraulics and audio equipment etc where HUGE battery power is needed. but is designed to be used as a second battery/ auxilery battery and not so much a carnking battery even though that can be used as one. They should be charged directly from the main battery using an isolator so it will charge but no return power for the longest battery life.

ECHOKnight2000 · 10-27-2006, 10:24 PM

Thanks guys! I appreciate the input!

Lowfront · 11-01-2006, 12:30 PM

You can have the most powerful battery there is, but if you don't have a high output alternator its not going to make a diffrence..

10-26-2006, 04:19 PM	#1
ECHOKnight2000 Small Car Lover View User's Garage Drives: A Super Car Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Minnesota, US of A! Posts: 830	Capacitor for sound system??? Okay, so I had my sound system for over two years, aftermarket speakers, headunit, sub and amp...I have a scanguage II and if I go to the battery volt read out, it varies (the voltage), is that normal? According to the Scanguage II booklet the battery when the car is operating should be between 13 and 15 volts I want to say. Anyway mine fluctuates from around 14v to low 13v and it hasn't happend often but sometimes my gauge cluster lights flicker and dim down, but like I said its not often. Sometimes the volts are consistant. My co-worker and I looked at my amp and he said it didn't look like there was any place to attatch the capacitor, also I told him about the fluctuating and inconsistancy of it being and he said it could be the alternator not charging the battery properly, but I'm not sure?? I looked at my amp and I don't know the model number and what not cause it doesn't say, its just a Kenwood 640watt 4-channel amp...obviously it powers the speakers, my sub is self-powered as I don't see any cables going to the amp that's next to it (I got it professionally installed). Up to this point I've been fine and when I go for oil changes the dealer apparently checks the battery load and it passes. Sorry for the novel. Any help or suggestions or personally experience appreciated! Thanks! __________________ You may look good on the beach but in reality you're a pompus, egotistical jerk. "I was never on the beach with you..."and you never will.

10-26-2006, 04:48 PM	#2
07WYarisRS HardlyDangerous Drives: 09 Yaris LE, H/B, auto Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Ridgeway Ontario Posts: 573	A cap goes inline on you main 12V power to the amp. As close to the amp as possible. It can't hurt and may help with the power dips and lights dimming. The battery on the yaris are small and not really desinged for high powered audio system. The alternator is also small and designed to run the cars electrics and keep a fully charged batter fully charged. So if you add a powerful amp to the system it's going to dim the lights and cause power surges. Again a cap can help. I run a cap on my 300w mono amp, without it I got some dimming of the lights and distortion at high volume levels. With the cap there is still some dimming but it's a lot better and the sound quality is better. __________________ The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

10-26-2006, 05:52 PM	#3
bigsky2 Cousin Vitz View User's Garage Drives: Yaris RS 5DR / Vitz RS wannabe Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 1,082	No No No guys! A cap is not the answer! Well, not the short term immediate answer that many people hope it to be... When your supply current is sufficient, a cap will be useful and advantageous. But if your supply current is limited, because of the moderate alternator, moderate battery, and the stress of all electrical components, a capacitor will only drain more power. A cap is no different than an electrical component in the vehicle, it will draw power. What I am trying to say is, do not install a cap and expect it to solve your problems. I strongly suggest the following (before getting a cap): - Reground your vehicle's ground connections - Consider retooling/reworking your alternator to increase the output - Add a second alternator OR - Replace stock alternator with a high output alternator - Add a second battery OR - Replace stock battery When you have sufficient supply current, a cap will prove to be more useful. In terms of the amperage pull on amps, you can use this rough equation to determine the total amperage draw. Take the total RMS power of your amps and divide by 12.5~13 (car's idle voltage) to determine the total amperage pull of your amps. Eg. 4ch Amp - 600W RMS Mono Amp - 400W RMS Divide by 12.5V Equals = 80A If it exceeds 90A, then I think you run the risk of damaging the alternator The Yaris stock alternator only outouts 80A, if I remember correctly. __________________ 2007 Yaris RS Hatchback Black Sand Pearl 5DR MT DIY Speaker Spacer/Bracket Template for Yaris Hatchback http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1930

10-26-2006, 10:28 PM	#6
ECHOKnight2000 Small Car Lover View User's Garage Drives: A Super Car Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Minnesota, US of A! Posts: 830	Thanks guys for the info and heads up! I really do appreciate it! Not to make things too "complicated" however you want to see it, I have an ECHO sedan not a Yaris, well at least not second gen I'm in the U.S. so I have the same engine (obviously tweaked for the second gen but pretty much the same) as most of you in N/A. The reason I asked on this board is well...its active, certainly more than the ECHO boards or at Toyotanation, and its a general question so... Also I have the "all weather package" that came with the car, I don't know if that makes a difference, its a heavy duty battery and alternator, but like I said maybe that's just a sales gimmick?? When I look at the alternator and battery they do look quite a bit "bigger" so I do believe they are for heavy duty activity, at least weather wise. Also I forgot to mention I have aftermarket extra driving Pilot lights and there bright! Anyway I know that puts a load on the battery, at least one of the variables. bigsky2, so capacitors are only good if you have enough power? I thought it was the opposite...I know for more elaborate sound systems with 2, 12" subs and the works need capacitors so it doesn't drain the battery or whatever...so its the opposite? I'm confused? My co-worker said he got a capacitor for his amp that powers the subs but he waited too long so it damaged the alternator or burned it out?? So if I get an extra alternator or battery where do I put it? So I can go to a auto shop and order a high power alternator? Is that the same as a heavy duty one? As you can see I"m a total noob at this and I don't know what I'm doing at all! I would have to get it professionally taken care of, as far as electrical stuff. Keep the info and suggestions coming! Again thanks for your patients and help! __________________ You may look good on the beach but in reality you're a pompus, egotistical jerk. "I was never on the beach with you..."and you never will.

10-27-2006, 01:09 AM	#11
07WYarisRS HardlyDangerous Drives: 09 Yaris LE, H/B, auto Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Ridgeway Ontario Posts: 573	The optima red top is a cranking battery Desinged to put out large amounts of power in short bursts. This is needed for starting engines and works will with any cars electrical system and audio system. The yellow top battery is a deep cycle battery. Great for off road lights, hydraulics and audio equipment etc where HUGE battery power is needed. but is designed to be used as a second battery/ auxilery battery and not so much a carnking battery even though that can be used as one. They should be charged directly from the main battery using an isolator so it will charge but no return power for the longest battery life. __________________ The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

10-26-2006, 08:40 PM	#4
ChinoCharles Banned Drives: LB Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: OH Posts: 7,787	Cousin vitz knows his shitz.

10-26-2006, 10:56 PM	#7
mikeukrainetz View User's Garage Drives: 2006 Toyota Yaris Join Date: May 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 564	visit http://www.the12volt.com for some hardcore advice on anything related to car electronics. its a great site that would be somewhat advantagous to anyone looking to add or trouble shoot a system.

10-26-2006, 11:29 PM	#8
johnnyfive Drives: 2007 Yaris S Join Date: May 2006 Location: Milwaukee WI Posts: 582	at your original problem, 13 volts is nothing to worry about. a capasitor will store energy, and fead it to your amps when ever they demand more than is being supplied by your alt. everytime you see your lights dim your amp is drawing more current than your alternator can supply, and this is where the cap would give your amp more juice, instead of your car taking it from your battery. But everytime a capacitor feeds power to your amps, it will then demand to be refilled by your alternator, causing a higher draw after the amp demands it, instead of when the amp demands it. The prper fix would be to supply enough current to your amps in the first place (high output alt.) although a capacitor may fix some minor problems because it will idealy be recharging when the amp is not demanding extra current, and will only be taking surplus current that would have been going to your amp...(like the amp wants extra current when the bass hits, but dosnt want any when the bass isnt hitting, so the cap will give it more when it hits, and then recharge when the bass isnt hitting) sorry i am not good at explaning things, but in short a capacitor may be a bandaid for a minor electrical shortage, but if your circit needs surgery you will not be helping anything by just putting a bandaid on it, and not fully attending to the problem :) Capacitors are not the godsend fix all that some people make them out to be, but at the same time people bash on them way to hard... but again in your case, 13 volts really wont hurt anything...

10-26-2006, 11:43 PM	#9
DARKYARIS View User's Garage Drives: 2007 Yaris RS HB Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Crazyville, Canada Posts: 48	Upgraded to an Optima Gel cell .....and , Yup ...capicitor as close as possible to amp. No dimming lights !!!

10-27-2006, 12:46 AM	#10
johnnyfive Drives: 2007 Yaris S Join Date: May 2006 Location: Milwaukee WI Posts: 582	i think you just got the red top so it matches your scheame :)

10-27-2006, 10:24 PM	#12
ECHOKnight2000 Small Car Lover View User's Garage Drives: A Super Car Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Minnesota, US of A! Posts: 830	Thanks guys! I appreciate the input! __________________ You may look good on the beach but in reality you're a pompus, egotistical jerk. "I was never on the beach with you..."and you never will.

11-01-2006, 12:30 PM	#13
Lowfront Drives: Yaris Sedan Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Worcester MA Posts: 119	You can have the most powerful battery there is, but if you don't have a high output alternator its not going to make a diffrence..

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