Under the hood of a 2012 Yaris

[Chuck G]

Originally Posted by Kal-El

Good post.



It cost a lot more than a $100M to redesign the Yaris. Only the powertrain and a few other components carry over. Otherwise, it's a completely new car including a different wheelbase (which changes everything). This isn't just a facelift. Developing a new car costs $1-$6 BILLION! The 2012 Yaris probably close to a billion.

Check out this article...http://translogic.aolautos.com/2010/...op-new-models/



Just remember that as long as the Yaris is built in Japan, it will never compete on content and price simultaneously. Notice that the only other sub-compact car built in Japan and sold in the US is the Fit and it's the most expensive model. A sport starts at $17K. A plain looking stripped model is over $15K. The only way to effectively load up a sub-compact and sell it at a bargain price is to build it in Korea or Mexico. Even building it in America is more doable than importing a Japan built one (as GM is doing with the new Spark).

The primary advantage of the Japanese built Yaris and Fit? Unmatched reliability/dependability. Pretty good reason for me.

Good post.

[roxy1]

Originally Posted by Kal-El

).

The primary advantage of the Japanese built Yaris and Fit? Unmatched reliability/dependability. Pretty good reason for me.

that is what toyota and honda lovers could always bank on, and 10 yrs ago, that was a good argument. today the differences between honda/toyota and the rest just isnt that significant. just look at the most recent long term dependability studies. honda is behind hyundai. toyota is still high. most notable, however, is how much less of a difference there is between the top and the middle of the pack compared to 10 yrs ago...heck even 5 yrs ago.

id take anything built at the Ulsan plant in s korea as soon as a car built anywhere else.

you write that the yaris cant compete on content and price simultaneously. i would argue that it does not compete on either one individually either.

the sad thing is they spent all that money on a new gen yaris and very few changes, if any, make the car any better.....it feels and drives like a facelift. they could have saved a boatload of money and just changed the front fascia a little bit and accomplished the same thing, as the new model offer no tangible benefits (except the small mpg upgrade, which could have been achievable without major changes).

[daf62757]

Originally Posted by Kal-El

Good post.



It cost a lot more than a $100M to redesign the Yaris. Only the powertrain and a few other components carry over. Otherwise, it's a completely new car including a different wheelbase (which changes everything). This isn't just a facelift. Developing a new car costs $1-$6 BILLION! The 2012 Yaris probably close to a billion.

Check out this article...http://translogic.aolautos.com/2010/...op-new-models/



Just remember that as long as the Yaris is built in Japan, it will never compete on content and price simultaneously. Notice that the only other sub-compact car built in Japan and sold in the US is the Fit and it's the most expensive model. A sport starts at $17K. A plain looking stripped model is over $15K. The only way to effectively load up a sub-compact and sell it at a bargain price is to build it in Korea or Mexico. Even building it in America is more doable than importing a Japan built one (as GM is doing with the new Spark).

The primary advantage of the Japanese built Yaris and Fit? Unmatched reliability/dependability. Pretty good reason for me.

I just don't buy the story that it is a complete redesign. 1 billion to redesign a car that isn't a money maker doesn't make any sense.

[daf62757]

Originally Posted by roxy1

that is what toyota and honda lovers could always bank on, and 10 yrs ago, that was a good argument. today the differences between honda/toyota and the rest just isnt that significant. just look at the most recent long term dependability studies. honda is behind hyundai. toyota is still high. most notable, however, is how much less of a difference there is between the top and the middle of the pack compared to 10 yrs ago...heck even 5 yrs ago.

id take anything built at the Ulsan plant in s korea as soon as a car built anywhere else.

you write that the yaris cant compete on content and price simultaneously. i would argue that it does not compete on either one individually either.

the sad thing is they spent all that money on a new gen yaris and very few changes, if any, make the car any better.....it feels and drives like a facelift. they could have saved a boatload of money and just changed the front fascia a little bit and accomplished the same thing, as the new model offer no tangible benefits (except the small mpg upgrade, which could have been achievable without major changes).

In 5 to 10 years, see how well these other cars hold up. Past performance is a good indicator of future performance!

[anthpace]

Originally Posted by daf62757

In your country, does Toyota offer any larger engines for the Yaris or are you limited to the 1L?

I wish the would offer the smaller engines here so we could get better gas mileage.

We have the 1 liter, the 1.33 Petrol, and a 1.4 Diesel.
We've always had those options. and the Yaris in Europe is built in Valciennes, France.

Mine is a Japanese Market Vitz built in Aichi, Japan with the 1Liter JDM only Super-CVTi Transmission, which they just introduced in Europe.

[CanIHazYarisHatch?]

Originally Posted by daf62757

In 5 to 10 years, see how well these other cars hold up. Past performance is a good indicator of future performance!

This is correct. Because Toyota is using the same "old" 1NZ-FE, which, historically has been very stout, I have no doubt this engine in the '12-onward Yaris will offer the same reliable and trouble-free service.

No stupid timing belt to worry about, and very smooth operation sounds great to me.

I prefer my vehicles made in Japan, as, in my experience, they are the most drama-free. I'll stick to what works.

[roxy1]

Originally Posted by daf62757

In 5 to 10 years, see how well these other cars hold up. Past performance is a good indicator of future performance!

there are now plenty of hyundais an even domestics on the road that are quite fine after 10 yrs and 200K miles.

going by what you are saying, nobody should have ever bought japanese makes because in the 70's and early 80's their dependability and durability was abysmal.

honda and toyota are counting on peple just buying off their reputation. look at the quality of the interiors of their latest bread and butter cars as of late...the newest corolla and the newest civic. some of the cheapest interiors in the class, both of which have had some fit and finish issues, something you used to rarely see in japanese makes.

believe me, i felt the same way as you about toyota for a long time. i just eventaully came to the realization that toyota and honda still make good dependable cars, but that their competition has changed so dramatically that their monopoly on reliability is a thing of the past. once i opened my eyes to that there were so many choices out there.

i know some peple will cling to the past and brand X is all they wil ever buy. but, when the only argument in favor of a car like this new yaris is that its worth the cost of other cars in this class because its a toyota, i cant swallow that anymore.

does anyone believe toyota stuck that old engine in the yaris because it was depoendable? they just couldnt afford a more refined advanced engine in that car at this time. im not saying its not dependable. it is a very good engine, just past its prime compare to some of the competition offering larger, more powerful and yet more fuel efficient engine.

i understand the problems japan has with the value of the yen, earthqualke, etc...but as a consumer those cannot be my problems.

now, would i buy a 2012 yaris as a second car. yes, but not at the same price as an accent, which has proven reliable in its previous generation and is now dramatically better.

if you are going to build the cheapest subcompact out there, just price it as such. thats really the gripe for me. at $13k i would not have any issues about the awful interior quality of this yaris because that is what you can reasonably expect at that prce point.

[CanIHazYarisHatch?]

Originally Posted by roxy1

there are now plenty of hyundais an even domestics on the road that are quite fine after 10 yrs and 200K miles.

going by what you are saying, nobody should have ever bought japanese makes because in the 70's and early 80's their dependability and durability was abysmal.

honda and toyota are counting on peple just buying off their reputation. look at the quality of the interiors of their latest bread and butter cars as of late...the newest corolla and the newest civic. some of the cheapest interiors in the class, both of which have had some fit and finish issues, something you used to rarely see in japanese makes.

believe me, i felt the same way as you about toyota for a long time. i just eventaully came to the realization that toyota and honda still make good dependable cars, but that their competition has changed so dramatically that their monopoly on reliability is a thing of the past. once i opened my eyes to that there were so many choices out there.

i know some peple will cling to the past and brand X is all they wil ever buy. but, when the only argument in favor of a car like this new yaris is that its worth the cost of other cars in this class because its a toyota, i cant swallow that anymore.

does anyone believe toyota stuck that old engine in the yaris because it was depoendable? they just couldnt afford a more refined advanced engine in that car at this time. im not saying its not dependable. it is a very good engine, just past its prime compare to some of the competition offering larger, more powerful and yet more fuel efficient engine.

i understand the problems japan has with the value of the yen, earthqualke, etc...but as a consumer those cannot be my problems.

now, would i buy a 2012 yaris as a second car. yes, but not at the same price as an accent, which has proven reliable in its previous generation and is now dramatically better.

if you are going to build the cheapest subcompact out there, just price it as such. thats really the gripe for me. at $13k i would not have any issues about the awful interior quality of this yaris because that is what you can reasonably expect at that prce point.

You make many logical and valid points in this post, Roxy.

Of course Toyota didn't do a complete re-design of their engine! Designing a new engine (even a humble four-banger like in the Yaris) costs hundreds of millions of dollars and takes years. I can assure you at Toyota, at this moment, they are developing the "new" or "refreshed" engine for the 4th gen Yaris due in 2014 (I read this somewhere).

Someone commented earlier that "Why doesn't Toyota give the Yaris 45+mpg?"

Well, if they did, it would cannibalize Prius sales, a sub-brand they are trying to grow at the moment. Also, the Prius, although at first not, is now VERY profitable for Toyota per-unit. The Yaris is not. It is supposed to be basic, reliable transportation that doesn't hinder people's lives.

I fully acknowledge that Honda and Toyota especially, have dropped the ball as of late. They have chosen to be "comfortable", which I call lazy, and just play it safe. Well, as they have been stretching out on their respective couches, the competition has started to catch up, and in many cases, surpassed them. Hyundai, especially.

That said, I have seen the new Accent, and it is hard as hell to see out of from the mailbox slit-like rear window, and it doesn't look very good, either. I also hate the interior design. It also no-longer comes in my beloved 3-door configuration. I am sure it will find many happy buyers, and will be very reliable.

Toyota chose to take a middle-of-the-road approach with the '12 Yaris. Not super decontented like the Versa (USB port, power door locks, even on the base model), or (in my view) overcontented like the Fiesta (a "decent one" is around $17k and can easily hit $20k).

There will be buyers for the stripper-special Versas, lots of them if previous sales figures are any indication. Good for Nissan.

There will be buyers for the excellent Fiesta, though few due to the higher cost of entry. Good for Ford.

But there will also be buyers (fewer than the Versa) for the '12-onward Yaris. It's a simple, honest, and "old" refreshed car. But you know what? Some of us like that, and hate excuses about DI engines getting clogged with carbon for 2 more MPG highway. In this economy, parting with our very hard-earned cash, we don't want to gamble on something unproven, or as I call it "too new". That's one reason why I won't buy the Fiat 500. It looks snazzy, comes in a 3-door, and was fun as a bag full of frogs during my test-drive several months ago. But let someone else be the beta-tester, I'll pass. Sales numbers for the A-class 500 back up my suspicions on Americans not wanting to take a "chance" on an unknown.

For this class, balancing simplicity and imagined luxury is very tricky. However, though not setting the world or it's class on fire, I think the Yaris has a place, a home. Those that test-drive it will at least come away with a high view of it's road manners, refinement (for it's class, again), and high build-quality. This is a reliable, simple economy car in the same vein as the Tercel, itself a very reliable, if very unpopular car in it's class at the time.

I kind of like that, but that's just me. Call me an old codger.

[roxy1]

Originally Posted by CanIHazYarisHatch?

You make many logical and valid points in this post, Roxy.

Of course Toyota didn't do a complete re-design of their engine! Designing a new engine (even a humble four-banger like in the Yaris) costs hundreds of millions of dollars and takes years. I can assure you at Toyota, at this moment, they are developing the "new" or "refreshed" engine for the 4th gen Yaris due in 2014 (I read this somewhere).

Someone commented earlier that "Why doesn't Toyota give the Yaris 45+mpg?"

Well, if they did, it would cannibalize Prius sales, a sub-brand they are trying to grow at the moment. Also, the Prius, although at first not, is now VERY profitable for Toyota per-unit. The Yaris is not. It is supposed to be basic, reliable transportation that doesn't hinder people's lives.

I fully acknowledge that Honda and Toyota especially, have dropped the ball as of late. They have chosen to be "comfortable", which I call lazy, and just play it safe. Well, as they have been stretching out on their respective couches, the competition has started to catch up, and in many cases, surpassed them. Hyundai, especially.

That said, I have seen the new Accent, and it is hard as hell to see out of from the mailbox slit-like rear window, and it doesn't look very good, either. I also hate the interior design. It also no-longer comes in my beloved 3-door configuration. I am sure it will find many happy buyers, and will be very reliable.

Toyota chose to take a middle-of-the-road approach with the '12 Yaris. Not super decontented like the Versa (USB port, power door locks, even on the base model), or (in my view) overcontented like the Fiesta (a "decent one" is around $17k and can easily hit $20k).

There will be buyers for the stripper-special Versas, lots of them if previous sales figures are any indication. Good for Nissan.

There will be buyers for the excellent Fiesta, though few due to the higher cost of entry. Good for Ford.

But there will also be buyers (fewer than the Versa) for the '12-onward Yaris. It's a simple, honest, and "old" refreshed car. But you know what? Some of us like that, and hate excuses about DI engines getting clogged with carbon for 2 more MPG highway. In this economy, parting with our very hard-earned cash, we don't want to gamble on something unproven, or as I call it "too new". That's one reason why I won't buy the Fiat 500. It looks snazzy, comes in a 3-door, and was fun as a bag full of frogs during my test-drive several months ago. But let someone else be the beta-tester, I'll pass. Sales numbers for the A-class 500 back up my suspicions on Americans not wanting to take a "chance" on an unknown.

For this class, balancing simplicity and imagined luxury is very tricky. However, though not setting the world or it's class on fire, I think the Yaris has a place, a home. Those that test-drive it will at least come away with a high view of it's road manners, refinement (for it's class, again), and high build-quality. This is a reliable, simple economy car in the same vein as the Tercel, itself a very reliable, if very unpopular car in it's class at the time.

I kind of like that, but that's just me. Call me an old codger.

i share alot of your sentiment. i just think the price point is just off a bit. a '12 yaris base model may make it into my driveway yet, but only if i can get one at under $14k.

[CanIHazYarisHatch?]

Originally Posted by roxy1

i share alot of your sentiment. i just think the price point is just off a bit. a '12 yaris base model may make it into my driveway yet, but only if i can get one at under $14k.

That is dangerously close to the invoice of $13,551 for the base L w/no options.

Um, good luck, Roxy.

If I can get mine for $15,500 w/all taxes, fees, etc. included, out the door, I will be happy.

[roxy1]

Originally Posted by CanIHazYarisHatch?

That is dangerously close to the invoice of $13,551 for the base L w/no options.

Um, good luck, Roxy.

If I can get mine for $15,500 w/all taxes, fees, etc. included, out the door, I will be happy.

yep. a stereo and ac are my only real requirements.

i already have a car with more technology than i will ever use.

[mr9865]

Originally Posted by CanIHazYarisHatch?

That is dangerously close to the invoice of $13,551 for the base L w/no options.

Um, good luck, Roxy.

If I can get mine for $15,500 w/all taxes, fees, etc. included, out the door, I will be happy.

I'm shooting for 14k out the door. In my area we get a turecar price of 14,035. Then I get the 1000 college grad rebate.

[roxy1]

Originally Posted by mr9865

I'm shooting for 14k out the door. In my area we get a turecar price of 14,035. Then I get the 1000 college grad rebate.

i noticed there are currently very few base model manuals in the midwest.

[CanIHazYarisHatch?]

Originally Posted by roxy1

i noticed there are currently very few base model manuals in the midwest.

Very few in Texas also...

But I will have my Yaris, oh yes! I can, and I will haz Yaris hatch!

[Hershey]

Don't forget . You get knee airbag and side airbags in the seats along with the active head rests . A few other additions as well . So , not such a bad price at under $14,500 .

[CanIHazYarisHatch?]

Originally Posted by Hershey

Don't forget . You get knee airbag and side airbags in the seats along with the active head rests . A few other additions as well . So , not such a bad price at under $14,500 .

When it comes to airbags, the new Yaris is 5lbs. of airbags in a 1lb....erm, bag.

[eTiMaGo]

Originally Posted by CanIHazYarisHatch?

You make many logical and valid points in this post, Roxy.

Of course Toyota didn't do a complete re-design of their engine! Designing a new engine (even a humble four-banger like in the Yaris) costs hundreds of millions of dollars and takes years. I can assure you at Toyota, at this moment, they are developing the "new" or "refreshed" engine for the 4th gen Yaris due in 2014 (I read this somewhere).

Yes, Toyota does not come out with new engines so often, and when they do, they tend to be a variation of the same one. Their latest 4-cylinder would be the ZR series, available from 1.6 to 2.0L, as found in the xD, Corolla, and others. I guess only Europe and Japan get a lot of different engine choices!

Someone commented earlier that "Why doesn't Toyota give the Yaris 45+mpg?"

Well, if they did, it would cannibalize Prius sales, a sub-brand they are trying to grow at the moment. Also, the Prius, although at first not, is now VERY profitable for Toyota per-unit. The Yaris is not. It is supposed to be basic, reliable transportation that doesn't hinder people's lives.

Yep, when the 2nd gen yaris was introduced in the US, it seemed kinda weird as it was more or less the same car as the xA... Of course back then we didn't know Toyota was planning to supersize the small Scions...

I fully acknowledge that Honda and Toyota especially, have dropped the ball as of late. They have chosen to be "comfortable", which I call lazy, and just play it safe. Well, as they have been stretching out on their respective couches, the competition has started to catch up, and in many cases, surpassed them. Hyundai, especially.

What was the last "hot" car Toyota sold? The MR-S, though it certainly is a decent car, is driven by a Corolla engine... Whatever happened to the factory turbocharged models? At least Honda kept up with production of Type R Civics...

Gotta thank Hyundai for putting a fire to the ass of Toyota to finish off the FT86 project... I'm surprised the Genesis Coupe has not made bigger wave, it is a lot of car for the money!

That said, I have seen the new Accent, and it is hard as hell to see out of from the mailbox slit-like rear window, and it doesn't look very good, either. I also hate the interior design. It also no-longer comes in my beloved 3-door configuration. I am sure it will find many happy buyers, and will be very reliable.

Toyota chose to take a middle-of-the-road approach with the '12 Yaris. Not super decontented like the Versa (USB port, power door locks, even on the base model), or (in my view) overcontented like the Fiesta (a "decent one" is around $17k and can easily hit $20k).

There will be buyers for the stripper-special Versas, lots of them if previous sales figures are any indication. Good for Nissan.

There will be buyers for the excellent Fiesta, though few due to the higher cost of entry. Good for Ford.

But there will also be buyers (fewer than the Versa) for the '12-onward Yaris. It's a simple, honest, and "old" refreshed car. But you know what? Some of us like that, and hate excuses about DI engines getting clogged with carbon for 2 more MPG highway. In this economy, parting with our very hard-earned cash, we don't want to gamble on something unproven, or as I call it "too new". That's one reason why I won't buy the Fiat 500. It looks snazzy, comes in a 3-door, and was fun as a bag full of frogs during my test-drive several months ago. But let someone else be the beta-tester, I'll pass. Sales numbers for the A-class 500 back up my suspicions on Americans not wanting to take a "chance" on an unknown.

For this class, balancing simplicity and imagined luxury is very tricky. However, though not setting the world or it's class on fire, I think the Yaris has a place, a home. Those that test-drive it will at least come away with a high view of it's road manners, refinement (for it's class, again), and high build-quality. This is a reliable, simple economy car in the same vein as the Tercel, itself a very reliable, if very unpopular car in it's class at the time.

I kind of like that, but that's just me. Call me an old codger.

+1 to all of the above :)

[CanIHazYarisHatch?]

Originally Posted by eTiMaGo

Yes, Toyota does not come out with new engines so often, and when they do, they tend to be a variation of the same one. Their latest 4-cylinder would be the ZR series, available from 1.6 to 2.0L, as found in the xD, Corolla, and others. I guess only Europe and Japan get a lot of different engine choices!


Yep, when the 2nd gen yaris was introduced in the US, it seemed kinda weird as it was more or less the same car as the xA... Of course back then we didn't know Toyota was planning to supersize the small Scions...



What was the last "hot" car Toyota sold? The MR-S, though it certainly is a decent car, is driven by a Corolla engine... Whatever happened to the factory turbocharged models? At least Honda kept up with production of Type R Civics...

Gotta thank Hyundai for putting a fire to the ass of Toyota to finish off the FT86 project... I'm surprised the Genesis Coupe has not made bigger wave, it is a lot of car for the money!



+1 to all of the above :)

The only complaint I can honestly level at Toyota is the killing of the Celica years ago. For without it, there is no chance of an MR2 revival. Having owned one while in Japan ('94 Turbo coupe w/5-speed), I can honestly say Toyota can do "sport", when they so desire.

I just wish they would do more than the FT-86.

The Genesis coupe is an excellent first effort for Hyundai. I have seen spy shots of the 2013 Genesis coupe, and it appears much more dramatic, and I suspect will be an even better driver's car.

Now that Akio Toyoda has full control of the Company, don't be surprised if this enthusiast starts getting the Big T to return to cars with a little more "sport", and I don't mean Corollas with bodykits and little red "S" badging.

Turbos are always good, Toyoda-san.