Toyota Yaris Forums - Ultimate Yaris Enthusiast Site
 

 


 
Go Back   Toyota Yaris Forums - Ultimate Yaris Enthusiast Site > Technical Forums > Forced Induction Forum
  The Tire Rack

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-04-2011, 03:33 PM   #55
Focus_Sh1ft
 
Focus_Sh1ft's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 Yaris Turbo; 06 tC Turbo
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 875
Got some news to share with potential Zage buyers...

I've had this itching suspicion regarding excessive oil pressure on cold start up that causes leakage out the turbos seals. I now know 100% what happened in my case.

I was running a 1ZZ TB and on cold start up was getting oil pressure at atleast 100 psi (my gauge was maxing out). The service manuals say the oil pump should be operating between 20 and 80 psi, so I wanted to look into this further.

My theory is that the greater airflow from the TB was being seen by the ECU and the ECU was turning up the oil pressure toooooo much (ONLY at cold start up. Arguably where the greatest oil pressure is needed). This is a sound theory because during normal driving conditions the oil pressure usually directly correlates to throttle position.

I swapped my 1NZ TB back on and sure enough - cold start up hit about 82 psi and there was no smoking out the hot side of the turbo. Can't really say I've noticed a loss of performance either.

In a nutshell, I think the Zage oil pan is safe to use.

... Now I just need to figure out why I can't hit max boost.
Focus_Sh1ft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2011, 05:02 PM   #56
cali yaris
ULTIMATE
 
cali yaris's Avatar
 
Drives: 07 Yaris Turbo
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Canoga Park, CA
Posts: 14,859
Send a message via AIM to cali yaris
^ That is all very good to know. And being able to make one change and record the difference is helpful.

What boost are you maxing out at and at what rpm? Got a video of you stomping on it to redline?
__________________
Micro Image forums, online store and shop are now closed. It was a great eight year run, but it was time to focus on other things. I'm still selling parts on eBay under micro*image seller ID and customers can still make requests for anything specific.
cali yaris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2011, 06:02 PM   #57
Nexus1155
Bathroom + Laptop = <3
 
Drives: Audi
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Dorchester
Posts: 1,009
Send a message via AIM to Nexus1155
Quote:
In a nutshell, I think the Zage oil pan is safe to use.
*facepalm* LOL
Nexus1155 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2011, 11:30 PM   #58
Focus_Sh1ft
 
Focus_Sh1ft's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 Yaris Turbo; 06 tC Turbo
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus1155 View Post
*facepalm* LOL
Haha, I know. I'm 100% sure this time though.

Anyways, even with my tru boost installed I'm only hitting about 6 psi around 4k RPMs. Boost seems to build quickly to about 5 psi by 3k then fall off. I don't know if this is how it's supposed to be or not because I've never been in any other turbocharged car.
Focus_Sh1ft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2011, 12:13 AM   #59
cdydjded
 
Drives: Yaris LB Turbo
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Miami FL
Posts: 782
My theory is that the greater airflow from the TB was being seen by the ECU and the ECU was turning up the oil pressure toooooo much
The ECU has absolutely no control over oil pressure

This is a sound theory because during normal driving conditions the oil pressure usually directly correlates to throttle position.
Oil pressure correlates to RPM not TPS position

I swapped my 1NZ TB back on and sure enough - cold start up hit about 82 psi and there was no smoking out the hot side of the turbo. Can't really say I've noticed a loss of performance either.
Id say that with the 1ZZ TB the RPM @ cold start are higher than with the 1NZ TB, thats why you have more oil PSI
cdydjded is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2011, 01:00 AM   #60
cali yaris
ULTIMATE
 
cali yaris's Avatar
 
Drives: 07 Yaris Turbo
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Canoga Park, CA
Posts: 14,859
Send a message via AIM to cali yaris
^ You are saying that rpm alone accounts for cold start 82 psi and warm idle 20 psi or less?
__________________
Micro Image forums, online store and shop are now closed. It was a great eight year run, but it was time to focus on other things. I'm still selling parts on eBay under micro*image seller ID and customers can still make requests for anything specific.
cali yaris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2011, 01:01 AM   #61
cali yaris
ULTIMATE
 
cali yaris's Avatar
 
Drives: 07 Yaris Turbo
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Canoga Park, CA
Posts: 14,859
Send a message via AIM to cali yaris
Quote:
I'm only hitting about 6 psi around 4k RPMs. Boost seems to build quickly to about 5 psi by 3k then fall off.
I think you mean build more slowly, not fall off, right?
__________________
Micro Image forums, online store and shop are now closed. It was a great eight year run, but it was time to focus on other things. I'm still selling parts on eBay under micro*image seller ID and customers can still make requests for anything specific.
cali yaris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2011, 11:32 AM   #62
cdydjded
 
Drives: Yaris LB Turbo
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Miami FL
Posts: 782
Quote:
Originally Posted by cali yaris View Post
^ You are saying that rpm alone accounts for cold start 82 psi and warm idle 20 psi or less?
Yes, oil pressure with cold oil will always be higher than with hot oil. Oil thins out as its temperature rises. Thats where the for example 5W30 # come from. Multi viscosity oils work like this: Polymers are added to a light base (5W, 10W, 20W), which prevent the oil from thinning as much as it warms up. At cold temperatures the polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to flow as their low numbers indicate. As the oil warms up the polymers begin to unwind into long chains that prevent the oil from thinning as much as it normally would. The result is that at 100 degrees C the oil has thinned only as much as the higher viscosity number indicates.

And depending on the quality/brand of the oil you will have +/- oil pressure.
cdydjded is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2011, 02:38 PM   #63
Focus_Sh1ft
 
Focus_Sh1ft's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 Yaris Turbo; 06 tC Turbo
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 875
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdydjded View Post
Yes, oil pressure with cold oil will always be higher than with hot oil. Oil thins out as its temperature rises. Thats where the for example 5W30 # come from. Multi viscosity oils work like this: Polymers are added to a light base (5W, 10W, 20W), which prevent the oil from thinning as much as it warms up. At cold temperatures the polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to flow as their low numbers indicate. As the oil warms up the polymers begin to unwind into long chains that prevent the oil from thinning as much as it normally would. The result is that at 100 degrees C the oil has thinned only as much as the higher viscosity number indicates.

And depending on the quality/brand of the oil you will have +/- oil pressure.
Great info, thanks. Agreed on the RPM and oil pressure correlation as well. That makes a bit more sense and would still explain the excessive pressure. The pressure was actually so great that oil was leaking out of the filter.

Quote:
I think you mean build more slowly, not fall off, right?
Yeah sorry. It pretty much plateaus at 6 psi. I was thinking it may have been because of a vacuum leak from a broken bolt on the TB, but after replacing the bolt and TB nothing has changed.
Focus_Sh1ft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2011, 07:53 PM   #64
Yoda
 
Yoda's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 Black Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: FL
Posts: 966
Quote:
Originally Posted by Focus_Sh1ft View Post
Great info, thanks. Agreed on the RPM and oil pressure correlation as well. That makes a bit more sense and would still explain the excessive pressure. The pressure was actually so great that oil was leaking out of the filter.



Yeah sorry. It pretty much plateaus at 6 psi. I was thinking it may have been because of a vacuum leak from a broken bolt on the TB, but after replacing the bolt and TB nothing has changed.
You might have a boost leak somewhere in the piping. Does your car jerk any? how are your afrs?
Yoda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2011, 02:57 AM   #65
Focus_Sh1ft
 
Focus_Sh1ft's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 Yaris Turbo; 06 tC Turbo
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 875
I really suspect I do have a boost leak and have had one since I installed the kit. Tomorrow I'm going to really comb over the induction system carefully. If nothing turns up, I'm gonna build a pressure tester. Also plan on hooking up a separate pressure gauge to the wastegate line and watching that.

There isn't really a better explanation for the problem I'm having. AFRs don't really indicate anything since I have complete control. One thing I did notice was significant richening at 5 psi or so while accelerating on the highway (i.e hits correct AFR for awhile, then goes richer than 10 after cruising for a bit). It's happened a couple times...
Focus_Sh1ft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2011, 03:02 PM   #66
Yoda
 
Yoda's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 Black Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: FL
Posts: 966
Quote:
Originally Posted by Focus_Sh1ft View Post
I really suspect I do have a boost leak and have had one since I installed the kit. Tomorrow I'm going to really comb over the induction system carefully. If nothing turns up, I'm gonna build a pressure tester. Also plan on hooking up a separate pressure gauge to the wastegate line and watching that.

There isn't really a better explanation for the problem I'm having. AFRs don't really indicate anything since I have complete control. One thing I did notice was significant richening at 5 psi or so while accelerating on the highway (i.e hits correct AFR for awhile, then goes richer than 10 after cruising for a bit). It's happened a couple times...
Based on what your telling me it sounds like you have a boost leak. All that metered air is escaping somewhere thus leading to your rich condition.
Yoda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2011, 03:13 PM   #67
Nexus1155
Bathroom + Laptop = <3
 
Drives: Audi
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Dorchester
Posts: 1,009
Send a message via AIM to Nexus1155
I don't get it? You do have a BOV right? Or does it recirc?

If it blows off into atmosphere it will cause a rich condition.
When you decelerate I usually see it lean out.

Still, boost leak testing should be done to any new build, and also as maintenance over time.
Nexus1155 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2011, 04:42 PM   #68
cali yaris
ULTIMATE
 
cali yaris's Avatar
 
Drives: 07 Yaris Turbo
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Canoga Park, CA
Posts: 14,859
Send a message via AIM to cali yaris
BOV to atmosphere on the ZAGE kit
__________________
Micro Image forums, online store and shop are now closed. It was a great eight year run, but it was time to focus on other things. I'm still selling parts on eBay under micro*image seller ID and customers can still make requests for anything specific.
cali yaris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2011, 07:10 PM   #69
Yoda
 
Yoda's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 Black Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: FL
Posts: 966
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus1155 View Post
I don't get it? You do have a BOV right? Or does it recirc?

If it blows off into atmosphere it will cause a rich condition.
When you decelerate I usually see it lean out.

Still, boost leak testing should be done to any new build, and also as maintenance over time.
he is talking about while cruising.
Yoda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2011, 02:19 PM   #70
fnkngrv
Mr. 155 and climbing
 
fnkngrv's Avatar
 
Drives: Seriously Modded 07 Sedan
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In The Hotbox
Posts: 4,742
any reason this thread died or is there nothing else to say?
__________________
Team Tiamat Racing on Facebook


Youtube Channel: Team Tiamat Racing


Class record holder in Land Speed @ 154.5mph for 1.5 mile and 145.5mph in the mile in the F (2.016 to 3.014 L), G (1.524 to 2.015 L), and H (1.016 to 1.523 L) classes.
fnkngrv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2011, 08:10 PM   #71
Focus_Sh1ft
 
Focus_Sh1ft's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 Yaris Turbo; 06 tC Turbo
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 875
There just isn't much left to say lol. I still have a boost leak, and I'm burning a tiny bit of oil occasionally, but other than that the Zage kit is holding up nicely. Most people just PM me with their questions at this point.

I think most people have kits installed professionally anyways. Honestly, I'd do another 10 turbo installs before doing this clutch job I'm currently elbow deep in
Focus_Sh1ft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2011, 10:13 PM   #72
fnkngrv
Mr. 155 and climbing
 
fnkngrv's Avatar
 
Drives: Seriously Modded 07 Sedan
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In The Hotbox
Posts: 4,742
yeah, I am sure that before the year is out I will be in need of a clutch install.
__________________
Team Tiamat Racing on Facebook


Youtube Channel: Team Tiamat Racing


Class record holder in Land Speed @ 154.5mph for 1.5 mile and 145.5mph in the mile in the F (2.016 to 3.014 L), G (1.524 to 2.015 L), and H (1.016 to 1.523 L) classes.
fnkngrv is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NEWS: TOYOTA REVEALS ALL-NEW YARIS SEDAN AT 2006 LOS ANGELES AUTO SHOW VitzBoy General Yaris / Vitz Discussion 7 09-20-2023 08:50 AM
Turbo kits!! djgab101 Forced Induction Forum 26 03-09-2015 04:24 PM
2007 Yaris Pricing Info ! YarisBueller New YARIS Purchase Forum 104 06-24-2009 05:54 PM
Turbo kit Brainstorming Gideon Forced Induction Forum 16 04-19-2009 01:54 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:27 AM.




YarisWorld
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.