Read This Before Buying a Hybrid/Diesel/Electric

[bronsin]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/05/bu...1&pagewanted=2


The "payoff" happens NOW when you buy a Yaris! ~$10,000 less than a hybrid.

[DMZ]

My wife's '04 Aveo is getting on in age and I am pondering trading it in on a new car before it loses what little value it has left.

I am seriously considering a Prius C. Not because I plan to save on fuel cost and that it will some day pay for itself. I would expect to pay ~$24K for one. I am not interested in the socially accepted behavior aspect of such a purchase either. Or who is greener than me BS.

I am interested in it because it is a very nicely refined, very reliable car that gets 53 mpg. The same sort of attributes that attracted me to the Yaris (albeit not really nicely refined).

A luxury sub-compact that gets significantly better mileage than a Yaris? Yeah, I might pay $10k more for that.

[bronsin]

The only thing I would take issue with you on (given your eyes wide open position)
is the quality of the Yaris.

To me its perfectly acceptable and nicely done.

I just want to get there as economically and comfortably as possible and the Yaris does both very well.

[DMZ]

Originally Posted by bronsin

The only thing I would take issue with you on (given your eyes wide open position)
is the quality of the Yaris.

To me its perfectly acceptable and nicely done.

I just want to get there as economically and comfortably as possible and the Yaris does both very well.

I can not disagree with you about the Yaris being "perfectly acceptable and nicely done." It is a far more refined automobile than my wife's Aveo, (which has been a very good, reliable commuter for her).

But.......the Prius is a couple of notches above the Yaris in refinement and comfort. It is like comparing a Camry to a Lexus. Go test drive a new Prius or Prius C. You well see what I mean.

So is all that additional refinement, comfort, gadgets, CVT, Eco buttons and read-outs worth an additional $8-$10K? Hmmm...might be.

[why?]

the yaris is simply not refined, it is spartan. The average person wouldn't consider it because it is too small, too boring, no leather, no nav, etc...

The Prius cars are actually nice inside. it is obvious they are not bottom of the line cars. Hell, the thing that annoys me the most about the Yaris is the seating position is too close and the steering wheel doesn't telescope. Not to mention no cruise control.

The main point of someone buying a Prius is they want more luxury than a car like the Yaris will ever have. and you can't blame them.

[bronsin]

Gosh that is so different from what I am used to. I had a 74 Beelte that barely had heat for petes sake! There was no radio either. I put 250,000 miles on it commuting 30 miles each way to work. 46 horsepower too...

The Yaris is a palace compared to that.

I was very happy with it too. It always started.

[DevilGirl]

The arguement that I feel I must point out at this time is in regards to a diesel. I own a 2009 Yaris Hatch. My fiance owns a 2009 VW Jetta Sportwagon TDI (diesel). We obtain relatively comparative fuel efficiency. But here's the biggest difference and why I would still consider diesel, despite the fuel cost being $0.20 to $0.40 higher than 87 octane:

The Jetta Sportwagon is a lot larger than the Yaris is. The Jetta Sportwagon also has significantly more power.

For a vehicle being larger and with better performance (helps greatly when having to merge on a highway), while still getting the fuel efficiency of the tiny car, I'd say that's worth the extra $8,000 to $10,000 more in purchase price and the higher fuel cost.

Granted, this also depends upon your needs and whether you can manage with the smaller car. For us, the Yaris works great for my commuter car (minimum of 100 miles a day). And we use the Jetta Sportwagon as the family car. The family is small for now (myself, my fiance, his mom, and our large pup - Weimaraner), but will be growing in a year or 2. Us, a baby, stroller, and a dog? Yeah, that doesn't work too well in the Yaris.

[DebbyM46227]

Originally Posted by DMZ

I am seriously considering a Prius C. Not because I plan to save on fuel cost and that it will some day pay for itself. I would expect to pay ~$24K for one. I am not interested in the socially accepted behavior aspect of such a purchase either. Or who is greener than me BS.

I am interested in it because it is a very nicely refined, very reliable car that gets 53 mpg. The same sort of attributes that attracted me to the Yaris (albeit not really nicely refined).

ITA with you. If I could afford any Prius model, I'd have one, and I'm not into this being green BS either. I would hope the seats in the Prius would be much more comfortable than the Yaris. My brother moved 300 miles away and he's been after me to visit him, but there is NO WAY I'm sitting in my Yaris for 300 miles. I went on a 100 mile long road trip and the seats become very uncomfortable after driving it just 50 miles.

[DMZ]

Originally Posted by DebbyM46227

ITA with you. If I could afford any Prius model, I'd have one, and I'm not into this being green BS either. I would hope the seats in the Prius would be much more comfortable than the Yaris. My brother moved 300 miles away and he's been after me to visit him, but there is NO WAY I'm sitting in my Yaris for 300 miles. I went on a 100 mile long road trip and the seats become very uncomfortable after driving it just 50 miles.

One of the things that drew me to the Prius were the seats. Very nice and comfortable. Better than my old '98 Camry which I considered a very comfortable car.

My 81 YO Mother lives 325 miles from me and I visit her often. I could take the Tundra (very comfortable), but it cost $100+ for gas, so I default to the Yaris. It's comfort level is "OK" but after 300 miles it is much less so.

[bronsin]

Originally Posted by DevilGirl

The arguement that I feel I must point out at this time is in regards to a diesel. I own a 2009 Yaris Hatch. My fiance owns a 2009 VW Jetta Sportwagon TDI (diesel). We obtain relatively comparative fuel efficiency. But here's the biggest difference and why I would still consider diesel, despite the fuel cost being $0.20 to $0.40 higher than 87 octane:

The Jetta Sportwagon is a lot larger than the Yaris is. The Jetta Sportwagon also has significantly more power.

For a vehicle being larger and with better performance (helps greatly when having to merge on a highway), while still getting the fuel efficiency of the tiny car, I'd say that's worth the extra $8,000 to $10,000 more in purchase price and the higher fuel cost.

Granted, this also depends upon your needs and whether you can manage with the smaller car. For us, the Yaris works great for my commuter car (minimum of 100 miles a day). And we use the Jetta Sportwagon as the family car. The family is small for now (myself, my fiance, his mom, and our large pup - Weimaraner), but will be growing in a year or 2. Us, a baby, stroller, and a dog? Yeah, that doesn't work too well in the Yaris.

The price difference is getting less between diesel and gas, so that works in your favor. BUYING a diesel vehicle new probably wouldnt as long as you already own one.

[bronsin]

Originally Posted by DebbyM46227

I went on a 100 mile long road trip and the seats become very uncomfortable after driving it just 50 miles.

I drove my Yaris 10,400 miles in 17 days from NJ to Alaska and back last summer. I planned to take my motorcycle but my back went out. I was very comfortable in the Yaris. Amazingly so.

There must be something that could be done to make yours better on long trips.

[firemachine69]

My Yaris was pure crap.

That being said, most YW members have had excellent luck.

But let's not forget, someone driving 1000 miles a week will get a better overall deal likely by buying a turbo diesel. Each vehicle has it's place!

[Nicfin]

I came very close to buying a used Prius. A 2007 model was about twice what I paid for my used 2008 Yaris. Factor in the possible extra maintenance and repair costs of a hybrid and I just couldn't bring myself to do it. At over 40mpg, I am very happy with my Yaris. I find it comfortable, but I have been driving a 97 Tacoma for about 11 years. My only major gripe was that it didn't have a cruise control. I swore I would never buy another vehicle without one, but I have since resolved that issue.

[bronsin]

Originally Posted by firemachine69

My Yaris was pure crap.

That being said, most YW members have had excellent luck.

But let's not forget, someone driving 1000 miles a week will get a better overall deal likely by buying a turbo diesel. Each vehicle has it's place!

Such a car would cost well over $10,000 more than a Yaris. Recently the price of diesel was well over 25% more than the cost of gas. ($3/gal for gas $3.78/gal for diesel) Right now its about 25 cents a gallon cheaper for gas which is less than 10% cheaper than diesel. But the price will go up for diesel Im thinking.

At 25% higher than gas prices you would not be saving a nickle in fuel costs with a diesel engine vs a gas one.

You might save 50 cents every time you fill up the way things are now...

[firemachine69]

Wow.


And my co-workers with TDI Jettas have been complaining about the five-cent premium over gas up in the great-white north...


The USA's heavy subsidization of consumerism (and especially gasoline) is at the heart of the crazy diesel prices, I would suspect. Truckers don't work for free, and diesel, IIRC, is cheaper to make than gas.

[bronsin]

Originally Posted by firemachine69

Wow.


And my co-workers with TDI Jettas have been complaining about the five-cent premium over gas up in the great-white north...


The USA's heavy subsidization of consumerism (and especially gasoline) is at the heart of the crazy diesel prices, I would suspect. Truckers don't work for free, and diesel, IIRC, is cheaper to make than gas.

Our fuel is taxed here too, but not like it is in Canada, Eurpope, and elsewhere.

Having said that heating oil, which is diesel fuel but is NOT taxed here in NJ, is MORE expensive than over the road diesel. About $4 a gallon for over the road diesel and $4.50 for home heating oil.

Id love to hear the explaination for that one.

I was in Canada last year and diesel might have been a little less than gas? I cant remember exactly.

[bronsin]

I see you are from Sudbury.

I rode my motorcycle through there in 2000.

I bought gas and when I rode out of the station there was this rock wall in front of me with all this crazy stress fractures in it. I knew something happened a long time ago but wondered what it was.

I since read a meteor hit there billions of years ago.

Know anything about that?

[bronsin]

Originally Posted by DMZ

But.......the Prius is a couple of notches above the Yaris in refinement and comfort. It is like comparing a Camry to a Lexus. Go test drive a new Prius or Prius C. You well see what I mean.

So is all that additional refinement, comfort, gadgets, CVT, Eco buttons and read-outs worth an additional $8-$10K? Hmmm...might be.

One of the problems with small cars is the manufacturers cannot make as big a profit on them as larger ones. However the economy of small cars is an inevitable factor as the price of gas goes UP not DOWN.

But they want to make money. So companies like Toyota are making the small car "upscale" They are trying to train consumers thats its "normal" to spend $20,000-$30,000 for a car...even if its a YAris.

Thats what theyre doing with the iQ. Releasing it as a Scion which is heavily loaded with "upscale" features. That cost more. So they can charge proportionally more. The Prius is just another such ploy

Sounds like you are taking to your training VERY well!