3rd gen 2zr swap with 6 speed - Page 4 - Toyota Yaris Forums

ern-diz · 01-07-2020, 12:06 PM

Nice!

06YarisRS · 01-07-2020, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stidnam

I happened to be in Tokyo this week and stopped in at one of the Autobacs. To my surprise I found they stock Neoplot pedals. It was a little on the expensive side, but thought I'd give it a punt. The position looks better than stock - 20-30mm higher off the floor and a touch to the left.

I'll install it in the coming weeks and provide some feedback as to whether it was worth it.

Oooh. Lovely looking piece of hardware there! I bet that would feel fantastic underfoot.

stidnam · 01-07-2020, 05:19 PM

Yeah it's a lovely looking piece of work :)

Unfortunately I haven't installed it yet. I'll be ripping the accelerator pedal out of this new Yaris and swapping it onto that pedal before installing it in my car. After driving a manual corolla over the Christmas break, it's really highlighted how bad the pedal positions are in the Yaris. I may even take the blow torch to stalk of the pedal to try and move the position a further 10 - 20mm closer to the brake pedal.

mitch9521 · 01-12-2020, 02:34 AM

Following this thread closely, as far as I know you are the only one tackling a 2ZR-FE on a 3rd gen. So far it doesn't seem much different than doing the swap on a 2nd gen Yaris/Vitz

stidnam · 04-26-2020, 06:16 AM

More progress today. Motor and gearbox have been test fitted to my spare shell and I've wired up 99% of the fuse box connector. What I can confirm so far

Motor and box mount perfectly using the GRMN Yaris mounts
The GRMN gearbox mount has a wiring harness tab on it that fouls on the counter weight of the gearbox selector. This needs to be bent out of the way
The cables I obtained from the euro 6 speed yaris do fit, but really aren't long enough. Shifter cables will need to be custom made
The Yaris battery tray no longer mounts properly on top of the gearbox mount. Mounting holes will need to be slotted
Exhaust looks like it lines up nicely, so I'll be grafting the Corolla exhaust to the Yaris one

Now on to the wiring

Factory Corolla starter wire does not reach the positive terminal where the Yaris battery fits. This will need to either be re-routed or extended
99% of the wires in the Corolla fuse box plugs terminated nicely into a brand new Yaris 26 fuse box plug. The only exceptions are the starter trigger, which is too big, and the wiring for the ignition coils and fuel injectors - these are two separate wires in the corolla loom that share a common terminal in the Yaris. It's a tough squeeze to get both wires in the Yaris plug. If running bigger injectors in the future, I'd actually run a separate circuit off this wire, using it as a trigger.
Remember not to remove the secondary lock tab completely from the Yaris fuse box connector as the first row of pins are actually inserted through the secondary locking tab
There looks to be a single redundant brown wire in the corolla loom. I couldn't find this in the wiring diagrams. After running a few checks I confirmed it to be a ground wire
There's a second fuse box plug in the Yaris. This plug seems solely dedicated to the heated oxygen sensor where the wiring goes back into the cabin and back out the floor to the exhaust. The Corolla does things differently and this wiring is all part of the engine loom. Therefore, it looks like this plug will be left empty per the photo below.
After plugging in the ECU and connecting up the computer, the software now recognises the 2ZRFE ECU even without connecting to the car. Running the diagnostic over it though and it's coming up with errors against MAF, Air temp, and immobiliser. Nothing too surprising as MAF wasn't plugged in, neither was the Oxy sensor in the exhaust, and the immobiliser is a given until the ECU is registered.

That's it for now. Next steps will include getting shifter cables made up, grafting the Corolla exhaust to the Yaris one, and finishing off the wiring odds and ends.

CrankyOldMan · 04-26-2020, 09:27 PM

Awesome work!!

saikouguy · 04-28-2020, 09:34 AM

Exciting stuff can't wait to see it. Maybe in person would be great

stidnam · 04-29-2020, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saikouguy

Exciting stuff can't wait to see it. Maybe in person would be great

Still a little way off dropping the motor into my daily.

While installing the motor on the weekend I also noticed the 2zr water pump had been leaking. Seems to be a common problem so will be replacing that while I'm at it. I'm also thinking about putting the spin on oil filter adapter while I'm at it.

And...after investigating custom shifter cables, I'm now investigating options to buy the genuine Toyota cables. Could be a long wait.

Oh, and I'll have to re-upload new images of the wire mapping. There are some errors in my previously posted images.

stidnam · 05-25-2020, 10:01 PM

Small but exciting update. I've managed to get my hands on genuine GRMN shifter cables that match my gearbox. Buying genuine ended up costing the same as what custom cables would have.

Note, these cables are made in Belgium. No surprise there given where the GRMN Yaris is assembled (France).

The cables are around 30mm longer than the ones I'd purchased from the UK that were from the 6 speed diesel Yaris. Not surprised either given the 2zr is mounted forward and down.

In other news, the ZRE152 computer appears to be incompatible with the 3rd Gen systems. More to come on that, but doesn't look like I'll be using the original engine I bought.

spoonzz · 08-22-2020, 09:43 AM

Any updates with this? So keen to see your progress. I'm also in Aus and own an auto 2012 Yaris YR and wanting to do something similar one day. Good luck!

ikenty · 10-04-2020, 10:36 PM

You are an inspiration to me.
I am on my second vitz now. I had a NCP13 Vitz RS now I have NCP91 Vitz RS.
My plans were to swap a 2zr engine and use my extra 6 speed transmission from my AE111 Levin for better acceleration but then I realized that the 2zr transmission bolts up to the 1NZ engine so now I am trying to confirm if the mounting points for the C50/56 NZ/ZR is the same as the C66/EC6x boxes.

Thanks.
Kimo

stidnam · 10-05-2020, 02:16 AM

Glad I'm inspiring someone :)

You'll likely find that the chassis mounting points for the C5X and C6X boxes will be pretty similar or at least have bosses in the right spot to tap. Would pay to do your research though.

The EC6X boxes will unlikely bolt in to the NCP9X or NCP13X chassis while mated to the 1NZ unless you went custom mounts. I was mulling this over myself when I found out my 2ZR was going to be incompatible with the NCP131 - I wanted to make sure I could still use my EC6X box with the Quaife. However, I've since acquired yet another Corolla/Scion IM, which I know for a fact will work, and am now in the process of piecing all that together. The 2zr dream lives on.

For the record, anyone considering doing a 2ZR swap in to a 3rd gen should probably think twice before committing to it. You must use a 2ZR and some of the other gear from a ZRE18X (Corolla/Scion IM). It's no where near as simple as the NCP9X swap.

CrankyOldMan · 10-05-2020, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikenty

... I realized that the 2zr transmission bolts up to the 1NZ engine so now I am trying to confirm if the mounting points for the C50/56 NZ/ZR is the same as the C66/EC6x boxes.

Thanks.
Kimo

That's a good question. I'm pretty sure that the EC6X gearbox requires completely different brackets from the C5X gearboxes. The casting is two pieces, not three and has a different configuration for the shift lever. It might require sourcing mounts from Europe or Japan to use the EC6X. Please let us know (in a new thread) what you find out!

CrankyOldMan · 10-05-2020, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stidnam

For the record, anyone considering doing a 2ZR swap in to a 3rd gen should probably think twice before committing to it. You must use a 2ZR and some of the other gear from a ZRE18X (Corolla/Scion IM). It's no where near as simple as the NCP9X swap.

Correct. I recently looked at a 3rd gen in the local junk yard and it's a very different animal from the 1st/2nd gen (which are basically just cosmetic refresh siblings). The electrical system is laid out differently, has a different fuse/junction box under the hood, different wire harnesses, etc. etc.

What did you find out with the LSD in the EC6X gearbox?

stidnam · 10-05-2020, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrankyOldMan

Correct. I recently looked at a 3rd gen in the local junk yard and it's a very different animal from the 1st/2nd gen (which are basically just cosmetic refresh siblings). The electrical system is laid out differently, has a different fuse/junction box under the hood, different wire harnesses, etc. etc.

What did you find out with the LSD in the EC6X gearbox?

I have a Quaife ATB installed in my EC6X. I had that installed about 6 months ago along with having a bunch of the synchros replaced. While it's not technically an LSD as such, it does a very similar job and in my opinion will be more streetable than a traditional clutch pack LSD.

The last few months have been frustrating to say the least when I found out that the older 2ZR ECU was simply not compatible with the 3rd gen systems. While it would have driven, there would have been multiple systems and sensors that would not have functioned. Funny, the immobiliser did register with the ECU, but that was about the only good news. Therefore, I started mulling over whether to try and install the EC6X with the 1NZ. I didn't spend too much time on that though.

I'm now onto a 2013/2014 Corolla that comes with an updated ACIS based intake manifold. We got that version here in Aus while you guys in NA got the Valvematic version. Unfortunately for me, the ACIS manifold is another 30%ish larger and doesn't clear the radiator fan shroud. There are workarounds and I'll have to do a complete write up here when I have the conversion sorted.

CrankyOldMan · 10-06-2020, 10:04 AM

Which model Quaife? I've got the QDF15E in my hatch. The track car (Project 2ZR Vios) has a Cusco clutch pack and it's too aggressive for daily/street use in my opinion. Lots of clunking and banging at low speeds before it gets warmed up.

Is the ECU just a matter of pins being in the wrong place or are there whole systems that are electrically incompatible? I forgot to look at the connectors when I was at the junk yard last month.

Any chance you've looked at a 3ZR swap? Looks like you may have access to the 3ZR-FE, we only have the 3ZR-FAE.

stidnam · 10-06-2020, 05:28 PM

The Quaife in mine is a QDF29E. How's your experience with the Quaife been? This will be my first FWD car with one. I'm hoping for a noticeable difference. Even on the street, and especially in the wet, I find the Yaris struggles with traction (195 tyres).

Regarding the ECU differences, unfortunately it's not just a matter of the pins being different - I'm having to build a little patch harness to get around that problem. Even with a ZRE18X ECU, while the dash cluster will work correctly, the Yaris ABS unit won't talk with the ZRE18X ECU. The ZRE18X ABS unit must be used to overcome this problem (Credit goes to another mate of mine for solving that one). Even Adam, who did the Valvematic conversion, had the same issue.

I have investigated the 3zrfe conversion and it's tempted me on multiple occasions. We got the 3zr in our Rav4, which conveniently came in manual transmission as well. While I think it'll work, I just can't justify it. The cost of the motor is twice the price of a 2ZR. There's also some trade offs it would seem - you sacrifice rpm for a longer stroke, more torque, and that torque band moved further down in the rpms. I think it'd make for a great little round the town car with the extra torque, but I'm not convinced it'd be as fun in the hills and on the track. Change my mind though :) it's not too late.

CrankyOldMan · 10-07-2020, 01:21 PM

I've been very happy with it. No noise, very good traction in the snow and on ice with appropriate winter tires. Not torque steer on hard acceleration. Wet roads are still not great but it's better than an open diff for sure.

Aah, that's a bummer. I work in automotive and see that kind of incompatibility all the time, even on revision changes within a product family. I made a spreadsheet to verify the Yaris and xD ECU pinouts and they're basically identical. The Corolla is way off and requires a lot of pins to be moved/added/deleted but in theory would work. Our workaround for the speedo was to use the C50 turbine and add the wires into the xD harness (since the xD uses the ABS sensors and CAN to send the speedo signal to the cluster). If your differential can use the OEM speedo driving gear and your casting has the hole for the turbine in it, you may be able to go that way.

ArmstrongRacing and I had talked about the 3ZR lower/long block as a potential "stroker kit" for the 2ZR, mostly because we only have the -FAE head and that requires a LOT more work to make it run on the Yaris platform. I hadn't considered the tradeoff of stroke length (which is where the extra 200 cc's come from) vs RPM and where the torque falls in the power curve. For race applications, it might be better to keep the torque and power peaks closer together. My racing class would also require additional weight if I went to the 2.0L engine, possibly negating or negatively offsetting the 10-15 bhp gains. And I'd have to use the FAE head, so that's probably not happening.

01-07-2020, 12:06 PM	#55
ern-diz View User's Garage Drives: 2007 Liftback Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: CA all day Posts: 3,794	Nice! __________________ On Instagram On Wheelwell

01-12-2020, 02:34 AM	#58
mitch9521 Gen 3 > Gen 2 Drives: NCP131, F-150 Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: Red Deer, AB Posts: 501	Following this thread closely, as far as I know you are the only one tackling a 2ZR-FE on a 3rd gen. So far it doesn't seem much different than doing the swap on a 2nd gen Yaris/Vitz __________________ 2014 NCP131 5 Speed 2007 F150 4.2L 5 Speed 2013 Rav4 LE AWD Autotragic - Wife's

04-26-2020, 06:16 AM	#59
stidnam Drives: Starlet Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Australia Posts: 177	More progress today. Motor and gearbox have been test fitted to my spare shell and I've wired up 99% of the fuse box connector. What I can confirm so far Motor and box mount perfectly using the GRMN Yaris mounts The GRMN gearbox mount has a wiring harness tab on it that fouls on the counter weight of the gearbox selector. This needs to be bent out of the way The cables I obtained from the euro 6 speed yaris do fit, but really aren't long enough. Shifter cables will need to be custom made The Yaris battery tray no longer mounts properly on top of the gearbox mount. Mounting holes will need to be slotted Exhaust looks like it lines up nicely, so I'll be grafting the Corolla exhaust to the Yaris one Now on to the wiring Factory Corolla starter wire does not reach the positive terminal where the Yaris battery fits. This will need to either be re-routed or extended 99% of the wires in the Corolla fuse box plugs terminated nicely into a brand new Yaris 26 fuse box plug. The only exceptions are the starter trigger, which is too big, and the wiring for the ignition coils and fuel injectors - these are two separate wires in the corolla loom that share a common terminal in the Yaris. It's a tough squeeze to get both wires in the Yaris plug. If running bigger injectors in the future, I'd actually run a separate circuit off this wire, using it as a trigger. Remember not to remove the secondary lock tab completely from the Yaris fuse box connector as the first row of pins are actually inserted through the secondary locking tab There looks to be a single redundant brown wire in the corolla loom. I couldn't find this in the wiring diagrams. After running a few checks I confirmed it to be a ground wire There's a second fuse box plug in the Yaris. This plug seems solely dedicated to the heated oxygen sensor where the wiring goes back into the cabin and back out the floor to the exhaust. The Corolla does things differently and this wiring is all part of the engine loom. Therefore, it looks like this plug will be left empty per the photo below. After plugging in the ECU and connecting up the computer, the software now recognises the 2ZRFE ECU even without connecting to the car. Running the diagnostic over it though and it's coming up with errors against MAF, Air temp, and immobiliser. Nothing too surprising as MAF wasn't plugged in, neither was the Oxy sensor in the exhaust, and the immobiliser is a given until the ECU is registered. That's it for now. Next steps will include getting shifter cables made up, grafting the Corolla exhaust to the Yaris one, and finishing off the wiring odds and ends.

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01-07-2020, 05:19 PM	#57
stidnam Drives: Starlet Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Australia Posts: 177	Yeah it's a lovely looking piece of work :) Unfortunately I haven't installed it yet. I'll be ripping the accelerator pedal out of this new Yaris and swapping it onto that pedal before installing it in my car. After driving a manual corolla over the Christmas break, it's really highlighted how bad the pedal positions are in the Yaris. I may even take the blow torch to stalk of the pedal to try and move the position a further 10 - 20mm closer to the brake pedal.

04-26-2020, 09:27 PM	#60
CrankyOldMan 2ZR swap. DO IT! Ask how! View User's Garage Drives: 09 Meteoric Metallic HB Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: West Michigan Posts: 2,333	Awesome work!!

04-28-2020, 09:34 AM	#61
saikouguy Drives: Toyota Echo Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 13	Exciting stuff can't wait to see it. Maybe in person would be great

05-25-2020, 10:01 PM	#63
stidnam Drives: Starlet Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Australia Posts: 177	Small but exciting update. I've managed to get my hands on genuine GRMN shifter cables that match my gearbox. Buying genuine ended up costing the same as what custom cables would have. Note, these cables are made in Belgium. No surprise there given where the GRMN Yaris is assembled (France). The cables are around 30mm longer than the ones I'd purchased from the UK that were from the 6 speed diesel Yaris. Not surprised either given the 2zr is mounted forward and down. In other news, the ZRE152 computer appears to be incompatible with the 3rd Gen systems. More to come on that, but doesn't look like I'll be using the original engine I bought.

08-22-2020, 09:43 AM	#64
spoonzz Drives: 5D YR 2012 Auto Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 25	Any updates with this? So keen to see your progress. I'm also in Aus and own an auto 2012 Yaris YR and wanting to do something similar one day. Good luck!

10-04-2020, 10:36 PM	#65
ikenty 4AGE Vitz Drives: '01 Vitz RS, '08 Vitz RS Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: St. kitts & Nevis Posts: 5	You are an inspiration to me. I am on my second vitz now. I had a NCP13 Vitz RS now I have NCP91 Vitz RS. My plans were to swap a 2zr engine and use my extra 6 speed transmission from my AE111 Levin for better acceleration but then I realized that the 2zr transmission bolts up to the 1NZ engine so now I am trying to confirm if the mounting points for the C50/56 NZ/ZR is the same as the C66/EC6x boxes. Thanks. Kimo

10-05-2020, 02:16 AM	#66
stidnam Drives: Starlet Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Australia Posts: 177	Glad I'm inspiring someone :) You'll likely find that the chassis mounting points for the C5X and C6X boxes will be pretty similar or at least have bosses in the right spot to tap. Would pay to do your research though. The EC6X boxes will unlikely bolt in to the NCP9X or NCP13X chassis while mated to the 1NZ unless you went custom mounts. I was mulling this over myself when I found out my 2ZR was going to be incompatible with the NCP131 - I wanted to make sure I could still use my EC6X box with the Quaife. However, I've since acquired yet another Corolla/Scion IM, which I know for a fact will work, and am now in the process of piecing all that together. The 2zr dream lives on. For the record, anyone considering doing a 2ZR swap in to a 3rd gen should probably think twice before committing to it. You must use a 2ZR and some of the other gear from a ZRE18X (Corolla/Scion IM). It's no where near as simple as the NCP9X swap.

10-06-2020, 10:04 AM	#70
CrankyOldMan 2ZR swap. DO IT! Ask how! View User's Garage Drives: 09 Meteoric Metallic HB Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: West Michigan Posts: 2,333	Which model Quaife? I've got the QDF15E in my hatch. The track car (Project 2ZR Vios) has a Cusco clutch pack and it's too aggressive for daily/street use in my opinion. Lots of clunking and banging at low speeds before it gets warmed up. Is the ECU just a matter of pins being in the wrong place or are there whole systems that are electrically incompatible? I forgot to look at the connectors when I was at the junk yard last month. Any chance you've looked at a 3ZR swap? Looks like you may have access to the 3ZR-FE, we only have the 3ZR-FAE.

10-06-2020, 05:28 PM	#71
stidnam Drives: Starlet Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Australia Posts: 177	The Quaife in mine is a QDF29E. How's your experience with the Quaife been? This will be my first FWD car with one. I'm hoping for a noticeable difference. Even on the street, and especially in the wet, I find the Yaris struggles with traction (195 tyres). Regarding the ECU differences, unfortunately it's not just a matter of the pins being different - I'm having to build a little patch harness to get around that problem. Even with a ZRE18X ECU, while the dash cluster will work correctly, the Yaris ABS unit won't talk with the ZRE18X ECU. The ZRE18X ABS unit must be used to overcome this problem (Credit goes to another mate of mine for solving that one). Even Adam, who did the Valvematic conversion, had the same issue. I have investigated the 3zrfe conversion and it's tempted me on multiple occasions. We got the 3zr in our Rav4, which conveniently came in manual transmission as well. While I think it'll work, I just can't justify it. The cost of the motor is twice the price of a 2ZR. There's also some trade offs it would seem - you sacrifice rpm for a longer stroke, more torque, and that torque band moved further down in the rpms. I think it'd make for a great little round the town car with the extra torque, but I'm not convinced it'd be as fun in the hills and on the track. Change my mind though :) it's not too late.

10-07-2020, 01:21 PM	#72
CrankyOldMan 2ZR swap. DO IT! Ask how! View User's Garage Drives: 09 Meteoric Metallic HB Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: West Michigan Posts: 2,333	I've been very happy with it. No noise, very good traction in the snow and on ice with appropriate winter tires. Not torque steer on hard acceleration. Wet roads are still not great but it's better than an open diff for sure. Aah, that's a bummer. I work in automotive and see that kind of incompatibility all the time, even on revision changes within a product family. I made a spreadsheet to verify the Yaris and xD ECU pinouts and they're basically identical. The Corolla is way off and requires a lot of pins to be moved/added/deleted but in theory would work. Our workaround for the speedo was to use the C50 turbine and add the wires into the xD harness (since the xD uses the ABS sensors and CAN to send the speedo signal to the cluster). If your differential can use the OEM speedo driving gear and your casting has the hole for the turbine in it, you may be able to go that way. ArmstrongRacing and I had talked about the 3ZR lower/long block as a potential "stroker kit" for the 2ZR, mostly because we only have the -FAE head and that requires a LOT more work to make it run on the Yaris platform. I hadn't considered the tradeoff of stroke length (which is where the extra 200 cc's come from) vs RPM and where the torque falls in the power curve. For race applications, it might be better to keep the torque and power peaks closer together. My racing class would also require additional weight if I went to the 2.0L engine, possibly negating or negatively offsetting the 10-15 bhp gains. And I'd have to use the FAE head, so that's probably not happening.