Drove the Scion FRS = impressions inside

[3cyltrbo]

Yesterday I drove the Scion FRS manual at an event held by a local dealer.

I got to drive it for a good amount of time on a mix of city streets and highway.

Like alot of people I was really looking forward to driving it based on all the hype and generally positive reactions it's been getting.

Except for the seats / seating position and general look of the interior, I left the experience feeling rather "meh".

Before I go any further, I should put a disclaimer that I've driven just about everything (except a Veyron) and I've been lucky to have owned some nice cars --- meaning that I'm not simply comparing it to the Yaris and the MR2 which I currently drive / but rather I'm comparing it to a host of other cars.


Back to my thoughts on several areas of personal importance to me.................


-Shifter = 6/10
This is one area I was really disappointed. I found it to be precise enough for decently quick operation but it didn't give me warm fuzzies or make me want to shift up and down endlessly / I also found it to be too notchy.
Compared to the manual transmission in any K20 or B-Series powered Honda (which I rate 9.5/10) it was not even in the same league, and frankly not necessarily any more precise or smooth than either my Yaris or my MR2.
I'd put it this way.....................it felt like stirring an upside down hammer through a bucket filled with cast iron Lego pieces. Compared to some transmissions (most Hondas) which feel like the well oiled slide on a bolt action rifle.


-Ride = 6.5/10
This is another area I was disappointed. I am fully aware that it is a sports car (I get it), however its possible to tune a car for a good compromise between good handling AND compliant ride. The FRS didn't seem to be able to do both. It did seem to control its body movements well, however the impact harshness was very very high. It didn't feel much better than my Yaris which has very very very stiff coilovers and it actually was no smoother than my MR2 which has stiff-ish drop springs. Compared to other current smallish RWD offerings (ie Miata / Genesis coupe / etc...) it was ALOT harsher.


-Braking / Clutch / Steering = 8/10
The clutch felt good - it seemed to have appropriate weighting and feel for a 200hp / 150lb-ft RWD 2700LB car. The brake pedal seemed to transmit decent enough feel and it didn't seem to have too much slop or useless travel. The steering felt communicative and smooth, although at times it felt artificially too heavy (given the size and weight of the car, and the size of the tires, and the speeds and loads I was subjecting the car to)


-HVAC controls & Radio =3/10
Typical super cheap / clickety / hard plastic / shit quality, Toyota parts bin HVAC stuff. Radio was a super cheesy aftermarket ish that will probably seem amazing to some 19yr/olds


-Cruise control stalk = 0/10
Really????? a tacky-add on cruise control stalk, bolted to the side of the steering wheel like an afterthought??? REALLY?????? / I don't approve of this on my $12,000 Yaris and on a $25,000 Scion FRS its just frankly embarassing.

-Power = 5/10
Exactly like the roadtests have said, its about 50hp and 75LB-ft shy of being very very entertaining.

-Overall Quality (Seats / dash material / door cards / general fit and finish) = 8/10
The seats were fantastic, super supportive and fit my 5'9" -165Lb frame just perfectly
The dash is so soft its almost rubbery
The faux carbon fibre part of the dash actually looks good in person
The entire interior is black, which although a bit sullen - seems to go well with the sporting intent of the car
The exterior fit and finish seemed to be typical high Japanese standards


Basically I thought to myself that if I won alot of money I'd buy one just as a track toy / Sunday Autocross car. But as a primary or secondary car, there are alot of others which I would potentially pick before it (not the least of which is the MR2 spyder which I have)

For the use that 95% of owners will put it through (slightly aggressive and "sporty" daily driving) , personally I'd take a Veloster turbo / Focus St / Civic Si Sedan / Genesis Coupe 2.0t etc... Especially when you consider that all of those cars absolutely SMASH the FRS as far as equipment is concerned (NAV / Heated seats / Full bluetooth / Sunroof / etc...)

I guess the FANBOI's haven't recruited another member.

Will

[1.5]

sad. I was hoping this would be Toyota's new breakout sports car.

[Golddeenoh]

yea i was hoping for a new supra reincarnation.

[cali yaris]

As long as you are comparing your experience to other $24k cars, it's a fair review.

I'm more impressed than that, and the tunability is a big plus for me (one of the things that doesn't show up in a test drive).

[Thirty-Nine]

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm really looking forward to driving one of these.

For me, I'm constantly comparing it to both the Hyundai Genesis and the Mazda Miata (it kind of slots in between the two). I haven't driven a Genesis, but I have driven the Miata (with the power retracting hardtop) and loved it.

[1.5]

The torque on those v6 genesis coupes is lovely I have not been in the 2.0T but they interest me as well due to the potential a boosted platform has.

[why?]

so you seemed to leave out the most important part - how does it handle?

most of the other stuff you mentioned isn't important if the car can do what it is supposed to do better than any car in its price range.

You seem to be judging it as if it were a daily driver or a luxury car.

The shifter can and probably will be modified, I'm not interested in a luxury type ride, i want the damn car to handle.

Basically the only two parts you commented on that really matter are what you called steering and overall quality. And then you mention options like it is a lexus or something.

By your review the only thing that has any chance of coming out good is in the Porsche and above price range.

[fnkngrv]

Originally Posted by why?

so you seemed to leave out the most important part - how does it handle?

most of the other stuff you mentioned isn't important if the car can do what it is supposed to do better than any car in its price range.

You seem to be judging it as if it were a daily driver or a luxury car.

The shifter can and probably will be modified, I'm not interested in a luxury type ride, i want the damn car to handle.

Basically the only two parts you commented on that really matter are what you called steering and overall quality. And then you mention options like it is a lexus or something.

By your review the only thing that has any chance of coming out good is in the Porsche and above price range.

You are right in that the handling department is a big key factor, but to say that his comparisons and the rest of the review don't really matter is a bit skewed. He provided his comprehensive impressions. How does that not matter? A very valid point is raised if on many levels if the other cars in its price range provide more/better quality/options.

Case in point is the shifting. Handling doesn't mean too much if the shifting is less than what it should be especially where spirited driving is concerned. There has been tremendous hype about the car and what it should do and what it is designed/intended for. If a competitor at the same or similar price point is providing something better that is critical right off the lot then to say
"The shifter can and probably will be modified" is silly in some regards. Why the hell should I pay for something inferior just because it can be modified at that price point? The baseline should be at least something sufficient. In this case from his review it appears that it is very possible that Toyota has failed just as they did with the manual Yaris. The difference here is that the car costs 10k more than what I paid for my 07 S!

I haven't driven the Genesis yet, but I have the Miata. I have ridden in the Genesis 2.0T with a friend who owns it and he is pretty good at very spirited cornering, etc. Granted the 2013 of the Genesis has gone up by 2k so that the base model is sitting at 25k, but if it comes better equipped with the important aspects then you could very well have a better platform to start from. This is of course not always the case, but can still be easily applied.

He makes a point to discuss the fact that he has driven cars from the lower end to the top and that is all. At the end he states that he would not have an issue with purchasing something else which he lists in the same price point, "
For the use that 95% of owners will put it through (slightly aggressive and "sporty" daily driving) , personally I'd take a Veloster turbo / Focus St / Civic Si Sedan / Genesis Coupe 2.0t etc... Especially when you consider that all of those cars absolutely SMASH the FRS as far as equipment is concerned (NAV / Heated seats / Full bluetooth / Sunroof / etc...)". From what I am gathering in his review you might as well purchase an older Toyota offering if you are a Toyota person and spend the money on that to make possibly a better car for the same 25k as you would out of the gate with the FR-S.

[why?]

Originally Posted by fnkngrv

You are right in that the handling department is a big key factor, but to say that his comparisons and the rest of the review don't really matter is a bit skewed. He provided his comprehensive impressions. How does that not matter? A very valid point is raised if on many levels if the other cars in its price range provide more/better quality/options.

Case in point is the shifting. Handling doesn't mean too much if the shifting is less than what it should be especially where spirited driving is concerned. There has been tremendous hype about the car and what it should do and what it is designed/intended for. If a competitor at the same or similar price point is providing something better that is critical right off the lot then to say
"The shifter can and probably will be modified" is silly in some regards. Why the hell should I pay for something inferior just because it can be modified at that price point? The baseline should be at least something sufficient. In this case from his review it appears that it is very possible that Toyota has failed just as they did with the manual Yaris. The difference here is that the car costs 10k more than what I paid for my 07 S!

I haven't driven the Genesis yet, but I have the Miata. I have ridden in the Genesis 2.0T with a friend who owns it and he is pretty good at very spirited cornering, etc. Granted the 2013 of the Genesis has gone up by 2k so that the base model is sitting at 25k, but if it comes better equipped with the important aspects then you could very well have a better platform to start from. This is of course not always the case, but can still be easily applied.

He makes a point to discuss the fact that he has driven cars from the lower end to the top and that is all. At the end he states that he would not have an issue with purchasing something else which he lists in the same price point, "
For the use that 95% of owners will put it through (slightly aggressive and "sporty" daily driving) , personally I'd take a Veloster turbo / Focus St / Civic Si Sedan / Genesis Coupe 2.0t etc... Especially when you consider that all of those cars absolutely SMASH the FRS as far as equipment is concerned (NAV / Heated seats / Full bluetooth / Sunroof / etc...)". From what I am gathering in his review you might as well purchase an older Toyota offering if you are a Toyota person and spend the money on that to make possibly a better car for the same 25k as you would out of the gate with the FR-S.

First off, his impressions do matter, but the most important thing is handling in a sports car.

And that is how people differ. I think the shifter in the Yaris is just fine. More importantly, from how I read what he wrote, it seems he is mad the car doesn't feel silky smooth like a luxury car or have all the latest and greatest options. And you are right, to some people the bigger picture and every little thing matters a ton.

But to me, especially coming from someone who says he has driven a ton of cars, How does it handle relative to other cars? That is what this car was suppose to be about. Does it handle better than a miata, or a genesis, or even a Porsche Cayman?

I doubt I'll ever have a chance to really drive any of those cars, and I'd love to know if the FR-S can really live up to what all the journalists are saying.

And you are also right, no way I can afford this brand new. At least not right now. It really isn't about being a Toyota person. I'd love to be able to get into an EVO or an STi or a GTR or a Lotus or one of the mid 90's Japanese supercars. If someone has driven a good percentage of these and other great sporting machines, I'd love to know his opinions on how the FR-S compares handling wise.

The press seems to love it. But the press will take cash for a good review as well.

[enviri]

why, you can attend the FR-S drive even in boston. I got invited, but cant go. You can sign up at http://frsboston.eventbrite.com/ and drive away.

[fnkngrv]

Originally Posted by enviri

why, you can attend the FR-S drive even in boston. I got invited, but cant go. You can sign up at http://frsboston.eventbrite.com/ and drive away.

there you go...that is an awesome opportunity!

[2o6]

Yeah, I agree that this review skipped over the mantra of this car; handling.

[fnkngrv]

Perhaps you can take away from the review that there could be so many other deficiencies that it completely took away from the expectations of handling? Just a thought.

[enviri]

well if anything, the drive event might had so many people seeing what you're doing, you might be limited on speed to even notice handling. Is it a closed course/parking lot? I sense it's more pedestrian driving than actual speeds, which is just stupid.

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

tri-state event is being held in stadium parking lot with supposed areas for speed and turning......

[why?]

Originally Posted by enviri

why, you can attend the FR-S drive even in boston. I got invited, but cant go. You can sign up at http://frsboston.eventbrite.com/ and drive away.

You must be on the more important list than I am, never saw that one before. Of course they say it is sold out, but I went on the registration list.

As for speed, that is the only reason I can think of for them to hold it in the parking lot of Gillete stadium. Massive amounts of room to lay out a few courses with cones or hay bales or whatever they want to use.

Hell, knowing Scion they'll be a rave type atmosphere too.

Still though, I wouldn't have much of anything to compare it too. Only rear wheel cars I've driven are a Ford Econoline conversion can and an 84 Cadillac Sedan de Ville.

[ilikerice]

my personal thought on this. I take every review of every car with a grain of salt. If its in my price range I will test drive it at the dealer if I get the chance. I can not say I have driven many RWD cars also. I only have the Miata, S2000, 350Z, 240sx under my RWD belt BUT I cannot compare that to any other "off the shelf" car that comes out because all of those were co-driving with someone at an autocross event running either the best street tires or R-comps which will throw any car in corners.

I can not wait to see this in person. I just got my chance to drive a new Fiat 500 Abarth.. omg that thing is so much fun. lol pics coming in another thread

[Freestylin]

This is pretty funny, but our only test drive vehicle in the Province was crashed about two weeks ago by some kid who tried to drift in it or took a corner too fast. The suspension components were all damaged, which led us to wait half a month for the new parts to come in before anybody can drive it again. My test drive is coming this Wednesday, so if it lives up to my expectations then I may pick it up.