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Old 04-04-2009, 12:47 PM   #1
Carvin'07
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Turbo set-up to get power:weight of RSX Type S

Hi all,

So, I am at a crossroads. I would love to build up the Yaris and have the thousands to do it, but am torn as to whether I should throw in the towel and just buy an A4 quatrro. You see, last week I drove a friend's 2005 type S and was incredibly surprised by the power. I used to drive a high 13 sec AWD DSM, so I wasn't expecting as much as it put out!!!

I'm fairly sure that the yaris can be much quicker and 'different' with the same amount of cash invested as getting the A4 (~17,000 cdn, with the Yaris selling about $10,500 privately, leaving a theoretical budget of $6,500).

Edit: added ratios
RSX-S power:weight = 210 chp : 2840 lbs = 0.074 hp/lb
Yaris would need to be 166 chp : 2250 lbs = 0.074 hp/lb


Here is my list...what am I missing?? Are the prices realistic?
clutch $300
flywheel $300
LSD $1000
-These three I figure I can leave until I make more boost, although I really am lusting for the KAAZ 1.5 way If I did the lsd, I would do the other two at the same time.

Do I need to get e-Manage to do the following? Further, do I even need e-Manage to run low boost?
-add MAP sensor from JUN Japan, 'clamped MAF' via e-Manage, can also 'clamp' stock narrowband O2

Turbo choices - I don't want to make a ton of power, but would like it to spool up at least 3 or 4 psi by 3500-3700 rpm. I would be very happy with 150 whp in this little egg $800 - 1100 is what I would be prepared to spend:

k03 <-- does anyone recommend this?
14b <-- small, but capable, plentiful in DSM world
T25 <-- tiny, but possibly good for the little engine? Lots available from DSMs
small 16g <-- likely a good, cheap and quick spooling turbo
big 16G <-- up to 320 hp, too much for me
GT20 (makes 143 PS; <3,000rpm to full 8psi)
GT2554R - more power than RS6 turbos and with quicker spool
GT 2876 (GT25) $1100 USD... up to 460hp <-- too much power for me
GT 2860RS disco potato DBB PN 739548-5 .64 AR ...$1150 USD 250-360hp
$1000 <-- also too much power for me

exhaust manifold -- does anyone produce them, or does everyone get one-offs??? custom $500?
return line for fuel to tank - $200?

Wastegate - change spring to run lower boost?
BOV needed?? $300
I will run no IC as I plan on a max of 6 psi
only need filter to turbo inlet piping - custom mandrel bent $150

injectors
1zz
2zz
TC
$180

cheap copper plugs, 1 or 2 steps colder until I dial in optimal set up...
then install iridiums at the best range - $200 for 4 sets of copper, 1 set of iridium

WBO2 is a MUST for me - $450

What did I miss? Thank you all in advance for helping out.
Trevor
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Old 04-04-2009, 01:14 PM   #2
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christ sakes im glad you atleast searched and did homework which is why im replying.

This is really a hard decision to make. I own an Audi and Its a love hate relationship, i wouldn't recommend one unless you have tons of cash to throw to maintenance.

Other than that I am using an old K03 from my S4 and one of the SMIC. I found even in low boost situations you still should cool the charge before it hits the engine regardless. Anything over 5psi you should use an intercooler. (If they use K03s on a 1.8T im sure its good for the 1.5T)

If you are going to use a piggyback and can control fuel i would go for the larger injectors from the bunch

Wastegate, you can just adjust the internal one with turning the nut right? but stock PSI on most smaller turbos should be fine as they dont flow as much air.

I am using the BOV from a DSM.... (FREE)

Some company does make exhaust manifolds, but I am going the cheaper route and buying a set of mandrel bends and making my own semi-remote setup.

All in all it will cost me around $340 for parts + price of e-manage

HMT FTW
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Old 04-04-2009, 03:00 PM   #3
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Heck yeah, finally a breath of fresh air. A member with some smarts, not just a "which turbo" type of question.
FWIW, I have decided to scrap my yaris build for several reasons. One, it's FWD, no real platform was ever competetive nationally. Two, the amount of money i put towards it, and much of the other work was either fabrication or headaches.
Now, with that said, I beleive this motor was not designed for much boost, and as such would not hold up. You could try, these motors are cheap if you blow one. A build on a 2zz was the way i had planned to go, but parts alone was costing me $10k.

So I'm on the verge of another project.

Question though, what do you need the car to be bulit for? It's easier to help if i know where you need the power. I.E.- drag (1/4 mi.), auto-x, superlap/timeattack, etc.
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Old 04-04-2009, 03:20 PM   #4
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One, it's FWD, no real platform was ever competetive nationally.
What? Dan Gardner won the NASA nationals last year, in a Scion tC.

Quote:
I beleive this motor was not designed for much boost, and as such would not hold up.
I guess we'll see about that, depends on what you mean by "much" boost. Mine held up fine @ 8psi for 9 months.

Otherwise, your points are good and you have to do what's right for you.
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Old 04-04-2009, 04:01 PM   #5
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Quote:
I guess we'll see about that, depends on what you mean by "much" boost. Mine held up fine @ 8psi for 9 months.
And would still be going strong if not for the tear down? or did i miss a kaboom?

I mean and this was on what a GT25 turbo (1.4L-2.2L Recomended), which is bigger than most that are suitable for this sitatuion that everyone is doing. So regardless, unless you throw anything bigger than a GT25 you should be prefectly fine on stock internals.
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Old 04-04-2009, 04:28 PM   #6
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And would still be going strong if not for the tear down? or did i miss a kaboom?
correct, and that was without proper tuning as well.
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Old 04-04-2009, 04:31 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by anonymous user View Post
One, it's FWD, no real platform was ever competetive nationally.
? have you ever heard from Puerto Rico
Tuerca Loca was a 8 second civic 1991 HB
La Pulga a 8 second HYUNDAI "accent" which beated the Tuerca Loca in 3 out of 2 match in PONCE.
It's been years I don't know about nationals but that's kinda crazy 8 second FWD that are 4cyl.
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Old 04-04-2009, 04:36 PM   #8
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yeah down in PR they are FWD crazy its nuts, i mainly saw Toyotas down there though. I grew up on RWD japanese cars though, so FWD feels really sloppy to me entering/exiting turns

http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/index.php

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Old 04-04-2009, 06:54 PM   #9
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Well you got a great point there... A 8 second FWD is not something you want to take a turn with!
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Old 04-04-2009, 11:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RagnaCaT View Post
? have you ever heard from Puerto Rico
Tuerca Loca was a 8 second civic 1991 HB
La Pulga a 8 second HYUNDAI "accent" which beated the Tuerca Loca in 3 out of 2 match in PONCE.
It's been years I don't know about nationals but that's kinda crazy 8 second FWD that are 4cyl.
I know a lot of people from P.R., and know that they are big on 1/4. Unfortunaetly I'm not, hence my comment. You probably heard of most of them, crazy bastids who used to run 7 second toyota starlets and crap.
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Old 04-04-2009, 11:50 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by cali yaris View Post
What? Dan Gardner won the NASA nationals last year, in a Scion tC.

OK, in my region. :) I'll retract that comment.

I guess we'll see about that, depends on what you mean by "much" boost. Mine held up fine @ 8psi for 9 months.

Otherwise, your points are good and you have to do what's right for you.
I am watching your build cali, and respect your point of view. It seems like most people here either are straight line racers or occasional auto-x/SCCA types. I guess i would try to sleeve the walls and try to get like 15-20 psi if i were to drag race the yaris, as i suspect his option is.
And for 1/4mile the LSD would be a great option to look into.
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Old 04-04-2009, 11:54 PM   #12
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Also, you know what, I'm curious as to why you want the power/weight of a RSX.
Don't get me wrong, many driving schools train their students with these cars, i was just curious. I would think power/weight of a MSmiata would be a better goal.
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Old 04-04-2009, 11:57 PM   #13
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Hi all,

Thanks for the replies...I am glad to hear that my research was intelligently done. I'm likely not quite as young as quite a few of the members; I have had quite a few different cars over the years. :)

Nexus1155, HMTFTW - nice. Sorry to hear about the love/hate relationship with the Audi...although I was the same with my DSM. I always say, ya gotta pay to play.

anon, what I want is a powerful street car (let's say auto-x) that can be fun without taking it all the way to freaking redline and still not really going very fast. I'm pleased with the 'peppiness' and the fuel economy, but I'm getting tired of it. Like I put in the original post, I want to make about on par with the power:weight of the RSX-S basically because it is a reference point that I am pleased with, so basically ~150 whp...mid 14s to low 15's would be nice; what I want is an all-rounder, not a track/dyno slut. I still need to carry the kids and the dog!

FWIW I think that it's likely that I need a BOV to reduce the backpressure against the turbine. Although I've never run less than 12 psi before...does less pressure mean a BOV is not required?

So, the big questions are:

1. would the GT2052 (1.4 - 2.0L; 140-225 hp; 50 trim) provide 3-4 psi by about 3500...I'm not sure how to figure this out based on the compressor map...help!

2. who makes a reputable turbo ex.mani? I found one at turbo-kits.com, but only as part of a kit...I'm guessing this is a one-off type of deal.

thanks again all,
Trevor
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Old 04-05-2009, 12:32 AM   #14
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I see alot of people choosing turbos specifically for greater power. But i always try to choose one that is properly sized for the job and your goals. If you do not plan on building the engine and only want 150hp, that ones fine i would say. Soemthing that will spool nice and quick on this engine and make power all the way through the band.

Quote:
what I want is a powerful street car (let's say auto-x) that can be fun without taking it all the way to freaking redline
Very contradicting statement. As i find out when i drive my S4, i redline it every single chance i get regardless of fuel economy. It's a V6 Twin Turbo. Out of boost range I am wasting fuel regardless from the V6. But still if i cruise nicely i can get 300miles per tank :)

This is the problem with a turbo, the pull will attract you and make you keep on wanting more and more and more. I vow'ed never to own another N/A car again unless its completely gutted and 200hp.
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Old 04-05-2009, 08:36 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carvin'07 View Post
Hi all,

Thanks for the replies...I am glad to hear that my research was intelligently done. I'm likely not quite as young as quite a few of the members; I have had quite a few different cars over the years. :)

Nexus1155, HMTFTW - nice. Sorry to hear about the love/hate relationship with the Audi...although I was the same with my DSM. I always say, ya gotta pay to play.

anon, what I want is a powerful street car (let's say auto-x) that can be fun without taking it all the way to freaking redline and still not really going very fast. I'm pleased with the 'peppiness' and the fuel economy, but I'm getting tired of it. Like I put in the original post, I want to make about on par with the power:weight of the RSX-S basically because it is a reference point that I am pleased with, so basically ~150 whp...mid 14s to low 15's would be nice; what I want is an all-rounder, not a track/dyno slut. I still need to carry the kids and the dog!

FWIW I think that it's likely that I need a BOV to reduce the backpressure against the turbine. Although I've never run less than 12 psi before...does less pressure mean a BOV is not required?

So, the big questions are:

1. would the GT2052 (1.4 - 2.0L; 140-225 hp; 50 trim) provide 3-4 psi by about 3500...I'm not sure how to figure this out based on the compressor map...help!

2. who makes a reputable turbo ex.mani? I found one at turbo-kits.com, but only as part of a kit...I'm guessing this is a one-off type of deal.

thanks again all,
Trevor
Hi Trevor,

I could only share my experience with you regarding question 1, which is the Garrett GT20 turbo I'm currently using. This little fella spools up quickly and it starts building boost above 2,000 RPM. The stock internal wastegate is 7 PSI if I'm not mistaken, but I bypass it and paired it up with a Turbosmart wastegate with a 7 PSI spring.

You'll probably reach full boost in less then 3,000 RPM, at least thats what I've experienced so far. I later raised the boost to 8 psi, I still reached max boost in less then 3,000 RPM.

You could take look at the dyno chart here if you're interested:
http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/sho...t=10320&page=3

Hope this helps!
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Old 04-05-2009, 08:49 AM   #16
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Thanks changchewsoon!

That is great advice and exactly what I am looking for. WOW full boost at <3k...in fact, I had seen your dynochart a few days ago and look at your setup as what I want.

However, which 2052 do you have? I see 6 different ones here: http://www.theboostlab.com/products/GT2052.html

I also noticed that you only make 143 PS, but your torque is 181...seems that your hp is quite low. Do you have a small diameter intake?
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Old 04-05-2009, 08:53 AM   #17
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Carvin, check the units, I think his torque is measured in Nm and you may be used to ft-lb
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Old 04-05-2009, 09:13 AM   #18
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Carvin, check the units, I think his torque is measured in Nm and you may be used to ft-lb
OK...got it...thanks...I'm now working on my third coffee of the morning, which is making me feel a little clearer.
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