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01-04-2017, 09:42 AM | #1 |
iQ innovator & researcher
Drives: 2012 iQ Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 199
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Decisions.....Turbo, Supercharger, or Phantom ESC???
The time for my project has come.....
I've recently gotten the approval from my wife to do a type of forced induction on my project. I'm approved for a all in budget of $6,000 that will be available by summer, as we have finally paid off all our debts sans mortgage. Being quite a high budget, I don't necessarily want to spend it all on a forced induction system and I'm trying to thoroughly check pros and cons of each setup. Before anybody says anything else, I know $6000, plus selling or trading in my car would free up enough money to get something sportier, but I have decided against this path, and only want to continue with this car at this time. My options so far that I've concluded are a little large, and I've not come to a clear decision on which would be the best path. Also now that you've read this far, I'll make it clear that the vehicle in question IS NOT a Yaris. It is actually a Toyota iQ, but since it uses the 1NR-FE, which is pretty much a backwards lower displacement 1NZ-FE and according to Gazoo and Motorweek the suspension is based on the Yaris, so being the cousin to the Yaris, I thought perhaps folks in Yaris World would be willing to be helpful to my questions. Options 1. Zage Turbo Kit Cheapest option new at $1500 shipped I really like this option, and Focus_Sh1ft has shown how versatile the option can be. However, on the 1NR-FE engine there are a few concerns. -The oil filter, is no longer a canister style and it now a Wix insert filter into the metal oil housing. This makes an oil feel line more complicated as I can't do a simple oil sandwich and run it to the turbo. -The 1NR-FE is MUCH higher compression at 11.5:1. Not out of the question especially since it's port injection and from the factory can run on 87 octane, so the stock ECU is used to retarding the timing in order to not detonate. I also have a CamCon and Emanage blue for fuel and timing control and would not exceed 4-7psi after a tune. -Since the block is rotated 180 degrees on the iQ, more than likely I'd have to get a different turbo manifold and I'm unsure of what would work. Is this a TD style flange, some sort of custom Zage flange, or something different? 2. Power Enterprise iQ specific Rotrex kit Most expensive option at $3500 shipped from Japan -Although this is specific to the chassis/engine, it's still not a bolt on to the vehicle and requires wiring extensions and modification to the Rotrex idler pulley on LHD versus RHD. Sounds strange, but it's true. -This is the exact same kit as what is supplied with the GRMN Gazoo Racing iQ and the only gentleman in the US who has it has posted it has made 110whp/101tq at 5psi with the Power Enterprise P-Map piggy back ECU. Recently he purchased a smaller pulley, ran E85 (I'm never going to) and made 139whp, so more than enough to be sufficient to a 2000lb. vehicle, just not sure the cost is worth it if the Zage or Phantom can do similar. -With this kit, I'd also need to get a header made to take full advantage and I've been quoted around $150 for one. -Rotrex supercharges, I'm unsure of how reliable they are or what the cost of a rebuild will be or what and how often I'd need to change the Rotrex oil or cost associated with it. 3. Phantom ESC supercharger Second most expensive at $1600-$1900 used -Definitely the least known here, but have been following this project for years on FT86 forum. Essentially it's a ebay turbo intake housing attached to a brushless RC motor that spins to 50000 rpms with 2 Deka ETX16 batteries used as "dump packs" and a starter battery for the vehicles ignition/electrical system. I know anybody reading this is going to think it's a crock of sh!t, but if you look at the ft86 boards, you'll see the hundreds of pages associated with this. -This is a more ON/OFF systems and requires either WOT or 75% throttle to engage and the higher up in the RPM band you go, the low the boost as it is not variable and only spins at one speed, 50000rpms. The more rpms you run the less efficient it is. It starts around 5psi and around 6000rpms boost drops to 2psi. So it's only really good for low to mid range power and since an iQ uses a CVT, it almost negates the entire boosted system. -Easiest to set up, basically fits on the end of the air intake or throttle body, disregards the factory battery to be replaced by 3 other batteries and can be used on any car for the most part. -Phantom has stopped production temporarily with the FT86 chassis in order to make a better brushless motor controller allowing linear boost as well as to set it up for the new ND Miata chassis, so getting any help with replacement parts or info, or otherwise wouldn't be possible until the engineer has finished on the ND chassis 4. 1ZZ TRD Supercharger - The cons to this are that it will need another extension, like the TOOTER spacer in order for the M45 to clear the valve cover on the iQ, however this seems to be the most reliable option IF IT CAN BE MADE TO FIT. -Because of the Lotus crew along with other Toyota people, this kit is hard to find and almost always over $1800 used now that Toyota has discontinued them it's become even harder to find. -Being an Eaton blower, lots of pulley choices from the Mini, GM QuadCam setups, etc. so boost would be easy to determine/fix if needed. -With no ability to check measurements or otherwise, it'd be a gamble of $2000.00 theoretically, require a lot of downtime for my iQ (no longer daily driven), and may or may not work. 5. Blitz Supercharger -Again, like the 1ZZ TRD, would need a spacer to be used to extend my intake manifold to make it clear the valve cover. -Measurements are the same for the 1NR and 1NZ for the snout to accessory pullies, although I'm unsure what crank pulley would do with Blitz bp psi-wise. -Rebuilding the Ogura supercharger is a nightmare looking at CrankyOldMan's threads, so that alone may instantly eliminate this option. I'm just curious of others opinions, experiences with certain forced induction, etc. Thank you in advance for reading this and I appreciate the feedback and opinions. |
01-04-2017, 03:21 PM | #2 |
daily driver
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find a log style turbo manifold for the 1nrfe and go custom turbo setup since it look like everything is more or less custom anyhow
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01-04-2017, 04:47 PM | #3 |
Only Happy When it Rains
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Yea, talk to local shops and local people that have turboed their cars. Sounds like even a zage kit needs modification, so you can probably find someone local that is use to playing with turbos and can make you a kit and install it for less.
Then their are iq boards, there have to be a few crazy iq people that have added forced induction, just see what they did and how they overcame the challenges you mentioned.
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Colin Chapman disciple |
01-04-2017, 05:37 PM | #4 |
やりすぎだ~
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#2
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01-04-2017, 09:16 PM | #5 |
Drives: 2007 yaris 3 door Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 1,000
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I wonder why they (ESC) don't run a resistance ballast on the motor controlled by the tps? I think I might make my own...
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01-05-2017, 08:25 AM | #6 | |||
iQ innovator & researcher
Drives: 2012 iQ Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 199
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Quote:
Quote:
Do you have links to Boosted iQs? Other than Daniel form FL, a gentleman from Germany, and several people on the Minkara JP group, I've yet to see anybody else and I'm quite active on the EU boards, US boards, Facebook groups, etc. This is kinda the way I'm leaning. Other than extending some wiring, it seems to be the easiest albeit most expensive option. Quote:
Build Discussion on the RC Boards... https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...r-supercharger Install and Explanation Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX-FYAelttg Owners Thread http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...=66862&page=80 Build/info/signup thread http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39719 Current waiting list of ft86 members wanting a kit with cash supposedly.... dpgfunk Brady68usa Deslock phrosty Caspian ShadowTS mglasgow jtree JimmyMac buckseventysix iConformed R3NIK Joshwahhhs ImBatman Andrew025 onetime4 tyrantcf propulsion1 BillyStrato shellslinger R2 NAISU86 Wolfdogelite stevo585 Yoda SilverFRS Njmarkc Cop isnotmyfault blackforge Aussie Dustin2Jz LucidMomentum Trunksse Studer21 cdq85 jzimmer801 Talus1 silverbullet m111 Phantobe Saturn10 qitorr btoast soon... Ingen jflBRZ P5yk0t1c dlux Gutterboy triethyl xsnapshot Motoarge Siby_86 Windex73 Infidel86 xuimod Tectoniic BBDGriptonia swarb Huge kid_wh Cypher009 focobrz dreamwonder apaull ajcarson11 BRZ Fanboi iJeff can't stop spinning Psnguyen F3RGY68 Lrk322 lanekrarup Lord09 FatFree mythhelios Mrrksturr svuong SuperJimmyK Aztec Fever Norkoastal MugenReplica RamCro chezzy79 Kpage gmanvilla1 Flow jackblack21 illmatic_frs kritch huhuei2008 soulreapersteve Johnrad Bluehwy danielwarren1 shadowhntr immaculate BirdTRD SLC BRZ Abe1120 Quasar Kid klear a3l3e9x4 dgoodhue AtomAnt Cole nnyath Randomfool sLoPy dpgfunk Brady68usa Deslock phrosty Caspian ShadowTS mglasgow jtree JimmyMac buckseventysix iConformed R3NIK Joshwahhhs ImBatman Andrew025 onetime4 tyrantcf propulsion1 BillyStrato shellslinger R2 NAISU86 Wolfdogelite stevo585 Yoda SilverFRS Njmarkc Cop isnotmyfault blackforge Aussie Dustin2Jz LucidMomentum Trunksse Studer21 cdq85 jzimmer801 Talus1 silverbullet m111 Phantobe Saturn10 qitorr btoast soon... Ingen jflBRZ P5yk0t1c dlux Gutterboy triethyl xsnapshot Motoarge Siby_86 Windex73 Infidel86 xuimod Tectoniic BBDGriptonia swarb Huge kid_wh Cypher009 focobrz dreamwonder apaull ajcarson11 BRZ Fanboi iJeff can't stop spinning Psnguyen F3RGY68 Lrk322 lanekrarup Lord09 FatFree mythhelios Mrrksturr svuong SuperJimmyK Aztec Fever Norkoastal MugenReplica RamCro chezzy79 Kpage gmanvilla1 Flow jackblack21 illmatic_frs kritch huhuei2008 soulreapersteve Johnrad Bluehwy danielwarren1 shadowhntr immaculate BirdTRD SLC BRZ Abe1120 Quasar Kid klear a3l3e9x4 dgoodhue AtomAnt Cole nnyath Randomfool sLoPy Westyfield2 h@zmat seant2h Reamer Zephyros18 Ryder86 Jkeim supasixfo |
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01-11-2017, 09:01 PM | #7 |
Takes corners too fast!
Drives: Absolute Red 2009 Yaris HB Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 830
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have you considered doing and engine swap and then some mild forced induction?
6k budget seems pretty good for such a project and it would net a starting point that is around 130hp before boost. How different is your engine bay as far as space? if you engine bay is basically the same as the yaris, then a swap might net you the best results, and a swap without boost would definitely get you some drive-ability. http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56031
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01-11-2017, 09:34 PM | #8 |
Pumpman
Drives: 2019 Kia Soul EV Base Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Langley, BC
Posts: 434
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Hmmm...interesting scenario, i gotta say.
My only question is, do you want to make reliable power, or do you simply not care? More power!!...regardless of cost!
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"I would rather loose by a mile in a car I built myself, then win by an inch in a car that was built for me." - Moog |
01-12-2017, 09:51 PM | #9 |
2ZR swap. DO IT! Ask how!
Drives: 09 Meteoric Metallic HB Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 2,333
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Having had a Blitz S/C on my 1NZ before I swapped to the 2ZR, I can say that a belt driven/positive displacement compressor is a blast! I would also advocate the PE-Rotrex kit, as someone else has done the hard and expensive work of fitting it to your vehicle. No messing with the exhaust, little or no modifications, and can probably be done in a weekend with minimal tools.
I guess it all comes down to what you can do yourself vs. what you want to have done ahead of time. If you can weld exhaust, tune a piggyback or standalone ECU, and have more time than money, then go with a turbo. If you're less skilled mechanically but can turn wrenches and follow instruction sheets, go with the Rotrex kit. Trust me, the time you spend figuring things out on your own is incredibly expensive from an opportunity cost, and you end up being the only person who can fix it. I don't think too many shops are interested in messing with someone's custom cobble job (mine included), and may charge a hefty premium to touch it if it goes wrong. |
01-13-2017, 09:42 AM | #10 |
iQ innovator & researcher
Drives: 2012 iQ Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 199
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I did find a complete Greddy Mp45 kit somewhat local to me for the xB. With a intake manifold spacer and maybe even without , it should bolt right up to the secondary intake runners, then all that would be needed would be a idler pulley and there are tons of options for that.
Unlike the other kits the manifold is straight, no curves so would be easy to mount. |
01-13-2017, 10:05 AM | #11 |
1NZ-6spd
Drives: '05 6-Spd Vitz RS Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,967
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Rotrex kit.
I've seen the engine bay of an iQ, there's no room for anything in there. If someone has already developed a kit to fit in there with the hood shut, go with that. The only thing I'd add is a small water to air intercooler to manage intake temps and make a few more HPs. |
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