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Old 06-16-2010, 07:32 PM   #1
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Smile I NEED Boost... Opinions puh-lease

So after some debate I've decided to splurge on a turbo setup and drop bolt-on mods, as they just will not cut it. I'm tired of being blown away by a minivan from a full stop.

After learning a bit about the necessary components and options available I've deemed this to be in my best interest:
1. Zage kit w/o turbo and oil pan
2. Emanage Blue
3. Mistu 14b (and rebuild) or Garrett GT2554

Hopefully I'll be able to get a hold of ChinoCharles to talk about his experience with the Emanage, and even the 14b. I still need to find a shop that can tune Emanages, but that shouldn't be too hard to find, (?) and is at the top of the to do list. Oh, and I plan on starting at 6 psi and shooting for 8 psi after the kinks are worked out. I hope to begin this next month. Opinions on the setup I have in mind would be much appreciated.

Also, been wondering about a few things that I can't find clear cut answers on...
1. Will the stock fuel pump and injectors suffice at as much as 8 psi?
2. Is it crucial to have a custom exhaust setup prior to tuning, or can it wait til after? Obviously I'll need one to get the most out of any turbo setup, but is it vital to have during tuning to get an accurate tune?
3. Is anyone else running an Emanage Blue successfully? Also, I'm open to suggestions on alternatives.
4. I'm really torn on turbos... The 14b will work and is so cheap, but spools up at 3k+ rpm (btw, this is a daily driver ONLY). For like $700 more I can get the GT2554 which spools up quicker and is a brand name. I really need opinions on this. My current plan is to grab a 14b and possibly upgrade to the GT2554 later, maybe when I decide to increase boost?
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Old 06-16-2010, 10:15 PM   #2
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I tried to buy ZAGE without the turbo and oil pan, they would not seperate it, its a package deal. You can probably source everything else anyways.

You can get a 14b or you can get a GT25 from an SR20DET setup and save that $700+ you would spend and just get the GT25 rebuilt. It's what I am going to do once I have enough funds for a turbo yarii.

I think you may have to upgrade the injectors? Not sure, don't quote me on that...
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Old 06-16-2010, 10:19 PM   #3
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After learning a bit about the necessary components and options available I've deemed this to be in my best interest:
1. Zage kit w/o turbo and oil pan
2. Emanage Blue AEM FIC is another option
3. Mistu 14b (and rebuild) or Garrett GT2554 Both these turbo use completely different turbine inlet & outlet patterns. If you have a manifold & downpipe made for the 14B it would not work for a GT2554 and vise versa.

Also, been wondering about a few things that I can't find clear cut answers on...
1. Will the stock fuel pump and injectors suffice at as much as 8 psi?
Fuel pump yes, injector no, see my dyno with stock injector & 1ZZ injectors
2. Is it crucial to have a custom exhaust setup prior to tuning, or can it wait til after? Obviously I'll need one to get the most out of any turbo setup, but is it vital to have during tuning to get an accurate tune?
You cannot & should not run the stock exhaust with a turbo kit, it is too small in diameter period
3. Is anyone else running an Emanage Blue successfully? Also, I'm open to suggestions on alternatives. Peterpoop
4. I'm really torn on turbos... The 14b will work and is so cheap, but spools up at 3k+ rpm (btw, this is a daily driver ONLY). For like $700 more I can get the GT2554 which spools up quicker and is a brand name. I really need opinions on this. My current plan is to grab a 14b and possibly upgrade to the GT2554 later, maybe when I decide to increase boost?
GT2554 would be the best option, another alternative is a T25/T28
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Old 06-16-2010, 11:42 PM   #4
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^ everything he said
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Old 06-16-2010, 11:51 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus1155 View Post
I tried to buy ZAGE without the turbo and oil pan, they would not seperate it, its a package deal. You can probably source everything else anyways.

You can get a 14b or you can get a GT25 from an SR20DET setup and save that $700+ you would spend and just get the GT25 rebuilt.
Didn't Racerfreak email them and get a $900 quote for the kit minus the turbo and pan? Although if you're saying that's a no go then I guess it doesn't matter. I don't wanna have to piece a kit together myself unless absolutely necessary. I also don't want their allegedly crappy turbo...

As for the GT25 rebuild, that's a sweet idea. I'll be looking into that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdydjded View Post
is another option[/COLOR]
3. Mistu 14b (and rebuild) or Garrett GT2554 Both these turbo use completely different turbine inlet & outlet patterns. If you have a manifold & downpipe made for the 14B it would not work for a GT2554 and vise versa.

1. Will the stock fuel pump and injectors suffice at as much as 8 psi?
Fuel pump yes, injector no, see my dyno with stock injector & 1ZZ injectors
2. Is it crucial to have a custom exhaust setup prior to tuning, or can it wait til after? Obviously I'll need one to get the most out of any turbo setup, but is it vital to have during tuning to get an accurate tune?
You cannot & should not run the stock exhaust with a turbo kit, it is too small in diameter period
I had no idea the inlet and outlet patterns were different, thanks for pointing that out... Now I need to figure out what pattern Zage's turbo is so I know what I'm dealing with.

As for injectors, would stock tC ones work, or are they too large? I could probably get those cheaper than 1ZZ injectors.

And exhaust... Would a catback exhaust make the cut, or should I go full out turbo-back exhaust?
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:29 AM   #6
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Last time I talked to ZAGE it was $888 plus shipping or something weird like that from their warehouse.

Chinese turbos are coming up in this world, so don't knock it until you try them, would you be surprised if you knew that OEM turbos came from China? such as Borg Worner? You just need to know who to go through and its not some crappy place with low quality control which ZAGE has hopefully upgraded from.

Yes, the manifold to turbo flange and what the turbo is is the big thing to look out for, turbos have a variety of flanges.

Ideally, it would be nice to have an exhaust that is straight pipe all the way back from the turbo the same diameter as the outlet, but you can probably make due with 2.5" like most people choose. Use high flow cats or no cats at all.
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:42 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus1155 View Post
Last time I talked to ZAGE it was $888 plus shipping or something weird like that from their warehouse.
Wait, for the whole kit? That means shipping is ~ $1000???

Chinese turbos are coming up in this world, so don't knock it until you try them, would you be surprised if you knew that OEM turbos came from China? such as Borg Worner? You just need to know who to go through and its not some crappy place with low quality control which ZAGE has hopefully upgraded from.
The only reason I'm hesitant to use their turbo is from the stories I've read that involve unwelcome explosions lol. I'd rather get something I know will work. I guess even if it does blow, rebuilding it isn't the worst thing in the world...?

Yes, the manifold to turbo flange and what the turbo is is the big thing to look out for, turbos have a variety of flanges.
Nothing is ever easy. If my plan holds, I'll ask them for the flange size / inlet, outlet pattern / etc. etc.
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:52 AM   #8
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Depends, did you contact ZAGE directly, or are you talking about the Ebay kit, I contacted them over a year ago so times might have changed

The turbos that I have heard of exploding so far, is because the owners did not "prime" the turbos before starting the car, initially spinning an unlubricated turbo. But yes, I know what you mean.

Most common is the GT25/28 flanges on most yarii manifold applications....
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Old 06-17-2010, 01:14 AM   #9
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I'm waiting to hear from Zage. Also, some quick research shows the flange is a T25/T28, so a 14b would be problematic, but do-able. If they don't wanna sell the kit in pieces I'll probably still consider it... The turbo seems like an appropriate choice, reliability put aside.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus1155 View Post
The turbos that I have heard of exploding so far, is because the owners did not "prime" the turbos before starting the car, initially spinning an unlubricated turbo. But yes, I know what you mean.
So... unlubricated parts spinning at tens of thousands of RPMs is dangerous? News to me

Maybe their turbochargers aren't as bad as people make them out to be.

Btw, thank you so much for pointing out the SR20DET. You can get the GT25 on ebay for like the same price of the 14b. It may not be ball-bearing, but eh

Last edited by Focus_Sh1ft; 06-17-2010 at 01:54 AM.
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Old 06-17-2010, 01:45 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdydjded View Post
2. Is it crucial to have a custom exhaust setup prior to tuning, or can it wait til after? Obviously I'll need one to get the most out of any turbo setup, but is it vital to have during tuning to get an accurate tune?

3. Is anyone else running an Emanage Blue successfully? Also, I'm open to suggestions on alternatives. Peterpoop
[/COLOR]

Well technically i am using the emanage ultimate. However, chinocharles ( you can talk to him at the forums on www.microimageonline.com ) is using the emanage blue successfully. Both have been tuned with success. However, like mentioned earlier, the AEM FiC could work aswell. Over on the microimage forums, a use named "Echo_hrs" sp? just bought an AEM FiC and will be having his blitz kit tuned with it eventually. So we can see if that will work aswell ( it should ).

Also, like stated, you should have a custom exhaust setup before your tune. Besides the obvious reasons, you also wouldn't want to pay to have them retune after you add your turbo back exhaust ( or whatever you decide with ).
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:22 PM   #11
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Quote:
would you be surprised if you knew that OEM turbos came from China? such as Borg Worner?
Fuzzy logic there, as you won't find a Borg-Warner quality turbo in a $900 kit. I personally wouldn't take a chance, and you have no recourse with customer service IF it fails.
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Old 06-17-2010, 11:46 PM   #12
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Yes, I messaged Zage directly and they will sell you pieces of the kit. They wanted about $1k shipped w/o turbo. I would go that route and buy a Garrett or HKS turbo if you want instant turbo. Otherwise wait till MI's kit comes out.

I would suggest a diff, clutch, tires (205's would probably be best), and a lot of research before you go turbo.
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Old 06-18-2010, 04:25 AM   #13
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Quote:
Fuzzy logic there, as you won't find a Borg-Warner quality turbo in a $900 kit
No, legit, we have certificates from borg warner towards that company for provided services. We just started ordering turbos from them, they also stated they would replace the turbo if anything happened related to the turbo.

Another company we have found in US using these same turbos, rebranded as "made in US turbos" has sold over 200 turbos and only a good handful have failed from unforseen circumstances which have not been investigated, just replaced. I have more information regarding all of this, but i don't feel the need to ramble on about something nonsensicle to the topic at hand.

But in all honesty, nothing will EVER replace a nice genuine from the factory Garrett
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Old 06-20-2010, 04:08 PM   #14
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So Zage finally replied and quoted $1045 for their kit without the pan and turbo. I'll definitely be doing this once I get the remaining details ironed out.

Racerfreak raised a good point I forgot to ask about earlier. How well will the clutch hold up? I've read that it's going to begin slipping and eventually fail under boost, but is this true at the 6-8 psi range as well? I don't remember seeing any Blitz SC'ed people having this issue.

NEXUS - how exactly were you planning on rebuilding that GT25 from the SR20DET? I've looked and looked and only found rebuild kits with journal bearings. Not a big deal and this will still be my number one choice for the turbocharger, but is it possible to buy a rebuild kit with a ball bearing instead? I've yet to find one

Lastly, any significant benefits using the AEM FiC over the eManage blue? Knowing they both work, I'm inclined to choose the cheaper option
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Old 06-23-2010, 03:27 PM   #15
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I was also wondering if anyone had any additional info regarding the piping clearance issue on the Zage kit? I'm running DFs so I've been trying to figure out how much of a problem this is going to be... In their install pictures, it doesn't appear to be a problem. I'm hoping worst case is that some of the piping needs to be trimmed a bit.
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Old 06-23-2010, 04:23 PM   #16
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I may be offering Carlos' kit soon - we are talking. It works on his car with the FIC and would require only a minor dyno tune after the install.
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Old 06-23-2010, 04:35 PM   #17
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Turbos are fairly simple to be rebuilt as long as you do not mess up the balancing of them..

http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/gen...ebuilding.html

If you are going to do the ZAGE kit, Offer them $1100 shipped for the WHOLE kit, try out the whole kit first. I think the main issue with this kit are that people are SPECULATING the issues, not actually trying the kit out itself.... It is a kit for a reason, there has been reviews on the taiwan forums iirc.

Is this your daily driver?
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Old 06-23-2010, 05:56 PM   #18
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I may be offering Carlos' kit soon - we are talking. It works on his car with the FIC and would require only a minor dyno tune after the install.
Great to hear. I'll hold off on ordering Zage for a bit. Any ideas on initial pricing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus1155 View Post
If you are going to do the ZAGE kit, Offer them $1100 shipped for the WHOLE kit, try out the whole kit first. I think the main issue with this kit are that people are SPECULATING the issues, not actually trying the kit out itself.... It is a kit for a reason, there has been reviews on the taiwan forums iirc.

Is this your daily driver?
Do you think they'd do $1100 shipped for the whole kit? That's like $700 less than what they ask... I do agree on the speculation part, as I don't know anyone who frequents this forum that has installed the kit. Do you possibly have links to those reviews?

And yes, this is my daily driver.
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