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Old 04-07-2011, 01:17 AM   #1
ExtremeCold
 
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Changing to cold air intake and issurance problem

Hello everyone

First, im new to this forum.

I felt the need to ask on this forum because i couldn't find the answer anywhere. Since i'm new, it is possible that this has been answered already but with a basic search did not find the right answer. Sorry if it's been answered as i do not want to start a flame on this forum.
also if i have posted this on the wrong section, please feel free to move it.

So here's the deal.
I own this 2008 Hatchback Yaris that i got 2 years ago. It is fully paid...since it is paid with hard earned cash, i try to take care of it (if you know what i mean).

The last 2 years i've been driving this stock cars and the only mod i did was to add fog lights, trailer hitch, and a roof rack + a luggage box.

And for some reason, the last 2 weeks, ive been reading and analyzing tons of documents online regarding K&N Cold air intake. I've probably read through 6 or 7 forums (without posting...) this forum being the first that i post on, checked over 20 video on youtube, read 30+ websites...some technical.

The idea of my research was to figure out wheter i should replace to stock air kit for CAI without changing the muffler and without reprograming the chip.
The initial goal was only to obtain a better MPG in city. Getting 1 or 2 hp (was marely a bonus to my mind). Better acceleration uphill was also a plus. And lastly the sporty sound that we get from this type of operation.

Because the answers and opinions vary alot from person to person, i choose not to debate on CAI but rather on the Warranty Policy and Inssurance that this change can involve.

You see, i had to decide if the $400 bucks investment was worth the change. To do that i had to evaluate the gain, the lost, the consequences especially the risks.

Many of the mechanical terms were new to me. For instance, i did not know much about Hydrolocking before doing research on CAI.

So before doing the changes, i just had to be certain of my move. So i called not only 1 local toyota dealer but about 3 more just to stay on the safe side.
I asked them about CAI and here is the answer they all gave me:

Changing the CAI do not void the warranty of the vehicule however if the item that i replace is the cause of the damage or has a clear link with the damage i'm issuing (and they must prove it) then the repair regarding that damage will not be covered by the warranty.
I.E: if the engine dies beyond cheap repair (over heat or something) and it it caused by the CAI (even if it has been properly installed by an expert, then i will have to pay for the repair this including buying a new engine if i have to.

The second problem i encountered was with the insurance company. I called them asking about insurance and Hydrolock.
For a stock vehicule with only cosmetic changes, i am fully covered by the insurance. If a tree falls on the car, if a large city pothole damage the car, if the car hydrolock because of a huricane or because of a catastrophic flood condition etc... i am fully covered by the insurance. They pay for the tow and repair.

However they said that if i installed a Cold Air intake. ( and i even supplied them with the part number and brand of the CAI) The claim departement told me that they will not cover the repair and more they might not renew the contract.
They simply said that Mod Car is not something they want eventhough they understand the concept, they simply don't want those clients.
If they open this door, it would allow too many people driving "sport" cars while paying for a regular insurance fee.
I understand the point for not allowing performance mod.

Because my insurrance company is a good one, they're the one charging me the less by the way. Since this insurance company only accept large group (they only take workers that work for big institutions) because they offer pretty good deal i'd like to stay with this insurance company. Changing insurance company will only increase the yearly fee by atleast 40%. and that is not an option. that 40% insurance increase fee will just negate the fuel economy i could have made with the CAI.


So my questions in the end are :

With theses information in hand. what are the best alternative to increase MPG with a yaris that i can perform. ( i have removed everything heavy that i could found) but the rest are things i can not remove (Trailer hitch bar under the car, Roof rack ) i only put the large luggage box when i need.

What do you guys think.. any known trick that really work to increase MPG ?

For instance, does replacing only the paper filter panel with a K&N one (in other words) without changing the pipe flow would do the trick ?
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Old 04-07-2011, 01:41 AM   #2
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Unless you drive through a foot deep of water, you will practically never hydrolock. Also, if you repalce the stock air filter with a K&N high flow filter it would work quite well as well. You could do more by say turning the tube that sucks air into the air box upside down. It's not technically a cold air intake then, but it will likely draw in colder air.
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Old 04-07-2011, 03:33 AM   #3
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Hey are you trying to pull a fast one, this thread is repeated lol
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Old 04-07-2011, 02:18 PM   #4
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^ He double posted but they got separated when people posted in them at different times. :)

Don't bother with the CAI, it sounds like it will be too much of a hassle for you and it isn't worth it for a Yaris. There's some good advice in your other thread.
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:25 PM   #5
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WOW...you really take things to extremes.

if you're really concerned, why not get the toyota unit and have it installed by them. it's TRD, made by toyota and installed by toyota techs. so, they have no say in the matter if it was the cause of a problem or not. it's not a modification, you simply put on a toyota part number in place of another toyota part number.

the TRD kit has a water seperater in it or whatever that rubber/foam insert thingy is called. also, the chance of you hydro-locking without the car being submerged is astronomical, even in a typhoon/hurricane. you'd still have to get water above the headlights to hydrolock.

if you're that concerned about the insurance and them denying you coverage, switch insurance companies or stay away from any modifications to your car.
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:33 PM   #6
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stay stock, add lightening
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Old 04-07-2011, 05:44 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by severous01 View Post
if you're that concerned about the insurance and them denying you coverage, switch insurance companies .
He said he would have a 40% jump in premium charges if he did that. That isn't even close to being worth adding an intake.
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:42 PM   #8
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i will be honest, i didnt read all of it. too long and drawn out.
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Old 04-07-2011, 10:02 PM   #9
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Ha. I don't blame you.
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Old 04-07-2011, 10:09 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by severous01 View Post
i will be honest, i didnt read all of it. too long and drawn out.
And to be honest with you, i did it on purpose.
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Old 04-07-2011, 10:21 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by severous01 View Post
WOW..

the TRD kit has a water seperater in it or whatever that rubber/foam insert thingy is called. also, the chance of you hydro-locking without the car being submerged is astronomical, even in a typhoon/hurricane. you'd still have to get water above the headlights to hydrolock.

I did ask for TRD parts when i first called the insurance company for the CAI. Cosmetic TRD are allowed, except TRD parts that boost the engine performance. Those TRD items are also prohibited by their in-house policies.

A TRD intake kit, even if it has been installed by toyota will void my insurance (not the warranty)

The warranty is not really a problem. I only have 25k miles left on the engine warranty (about a year left) anyway. The problem is with the insurance company.


Anyway, tomorrow i'll just replace the stock paper filter and put a K&N one... I may also add a rear rally spoiler.
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Old 04-07-2011, 11:06 PM   #12
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Easy solution don't tell your insurance about the intake... they will never know unless you open the hood for them.... the majority don't require you disclose what's under the hood. Just put a byplass valve if you want reassurance..... I don't tell my insurance what's under my hood & I'm really modded.... if you with a k&n filter you will get a better mpg & performance but nothing like a cold air.....



Quote:
Originally Posted by ExtremeCold View Post
I did ask for TRD parts when i first called the insurance company for the CAI. Cosmetic TRD are allowed, except TRD parts that boost the engine performance. Those TRD items are also prohibited by their in-house policies.

A TRD intake kit, even if it has been installed by toyota will void my insurance (not the warranty)

The warranty is not really a problem. I only have 25k miles left on the engine warranty (about a year left) anyway. The problem is with the insurance company.


Anyway, tomorrow i'll just replace the stock paper filter and put a K&N one... I may also add a rear rally spoiler.
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Old 04-08-2011, 07:01 AM   #13
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OK, but realistically, If all your doing this for is fuel economy, its a waste of time and money for you. With a CAI you may get 1-2 mpg better. Now, figuring the miles you gave above( 25000 left on warranty, about one year) and IF you are getting 40mpg now, that would be 625 gallons of gas. Getting 42mpg would be 595 gallons for that same 25k miles. So 30 gallons per year. Or at 3.50 per gallon thats 105.00 dollars per year, or 4 years just to recoup your investment before you start saving money. Granted, higher gas prices bring that time down. But if fuel economy is all your after, alter your driving or look at the whole picture with other stuff, like bumping tire pressure or lowering weight etc. CAI is more of a performance mod to help the engine breath better at high RPM, with slightly better mileage as a bonus. I've heard as many bad things about k/N filters as I have good, but something makes me think the bad is from over oiling the filter.....
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Old 04-08-2011, 10:32 AM   #14
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Quote:
A TRD intake kit, even if it has been installed by toyota will void my insurance (not the warranty)
You already have all the answers you need. You can't mod your car with any aftermarket part, even if it's made by Toyota, and keep your current insurance.

Any questions? Am I missing something? This sounds pretty crazy to me.

So, you can't put different wheels on it? How about new tires?
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Old 04-08-2011, 11:55 AM   #15
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i think you are just payin for the sound of a cai if that is the only mod you will add and nothing more.. i admit.. it is a cool sound and it cleans up the engine bay but tahts all
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Old 04-08-2011, 03:28 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by cali yaris View Post
You already have all the answers you need. You can't mod your car with any aftermarket part, even if it's made by Toyota, and keep your current insurance.

Any questions? Am I missing something?
Exactly. He loses his insurance if he modifies his car so he shouldn't. He should just drop in the k&n filter like he said he wants to do and maybe buy some lower weight parts for the car in the future like lighter rims, battery or hood/trunk lid. . Anything else won't give him what he wants and will void his insurance.
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Old 04-09-2011, 12:57 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by cali yaris View Post
You already have all the answers you need. You can't mod your car with any aftermarket part, even if it's made by Toyota, and keep your current insurance.

Any questions? Am I missing something? This sounds pretty crazy to me.

So, you can't put different wheels on it? How about new tires?
Yea, wheels, performance mag, suspension shocks, or any "normal" cosmetic changes to the body are allowed. Except this insurance company only cover up to $2000 if im not mistake.... (or maybe 5k) i will have to double check.

Any changes to the engine will void the insurance. I can add a trailler hitch and pull a camping trailer and i will still be covered even if the Yaris isn't meant to pull a trailer and that by doing so you are more prone to a car accident than changing "say" the Intake. That is the illogical part of the deal. This insurance company just don't want performance modded tunned cars Fast & Furious type of cars if you know what i mean.
But minor cosmetic and basic quality changes (like tires+mag) is ok with them. That's what they told me anyway.

By the way, in case someone is wondering about adding roofrack, here's a pic of my Hatchback with a Roofrack fairing combined with a rally spoiler just don't look at the dirts..


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Old 04-09-2011, 09:12 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by sickpuppy1 View Post
OK, but realistically ....Or at 3.50 per gallon thats 105.00 dollars per year, or 4 years just to recoup your investment ... CAI is more of a performance mod to help the engine breath better at high RPM, with slightly better mileage as a bonus. I've heard as many bad things about k/N filters as I have good, but something makes me think the bad is from over oiling the filter.....
Your input made me search some more. It's difficult to get the facts. K&N claim it is not their filter that cause problems to the MAF .
And other "specialists" beleive the oposit.

I already have the stock shape K&N filter coming in. I may use that filter for few months to see by myself.. but i may end up returning to disposable air filters.
I was told that those sensors provided with your stock intake were quite expensive parts to buy if they were to be damaged.

Because i live in a winter area...and we get tons of snow, dirts, ice, salt... where temperature can reach -15 Fahrenheit sometime (that's minus fifteen).. i hope those oiled air filter won't hurt the engine

If anyone had any bad experience with K&N filter during winter and heavy dirt, feel free to comment
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