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Old 05-31-2012, 11:26 PM   #127
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Let's invent you a fuel system now
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Old 06-01-2012, 08:25 AM   #128
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That sounds pretty amazing. Is there a lot of turbo lag? What other mods are on it? 4psi for 156 just sounds high for what we see here, is the xB plumbing bigger stock?
Magnaflow cat back exhaust was the only mod in conjunction with the kit. Lag is not noticed at all, powerband is convex. The manifold was the key component to achieve good results. That turbo on my car has some lag, but I have low compression. Car was tuned off wastgate spring pressure (3psi) but it was 4psi due to perhaps the new spring . t3 60trim turbo is great for the 1nzfe.
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:57 PM   #129
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are you going to be upgrading your motor mounts also?
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Old 06-04-2012, 08:11 PM   #130
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Mabe in time. Haven't had any problems with them so far. I need to make a return line for my stock fuel rail first. Also add a external regulator that will increase fuel pressure with boost. My Tc injectors are maxed at 12psi and stock fuel pressure.
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Old 06-04-2012, 10:07 PM   #131
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Mabe in time. Haven't had any problems with them so far. I need to make a return line for my stock fuel rail first. Also add a external regulator that will increase fuel pressure with boost. My Tc injectors are maxed at 12psi and stock fuel pressure.
CTScott and I were talking about this earlier this evening in reference to my car as well. I have my replacement motor in and running, but I need to replace the oil pan sub assembly this weekend before I consider it really "back on the road". I do however have my Autometer Fuel Pressure Gauge installed and today doing a test drive of about 10 miles the FP is staying at roughly 48psi regardless of being at 0, 5, or 9psi of boost. We need to be at a 1:1 so technically at 9psi of boost then the FP should be at roughly 53psi as per our hunches. You said that you are already running a 255lph pump right and that you don't think that it is a true Walboro? IMHO if you are going to be getting into the tank anyway to upgrade your system then I would change to a Walboro 190lhp since you aren't going to be hitting over 300-320hp so that you aren't returning a heap ton of heated fuel. If all goes well and I have the car back on the road by the beginning of next week then I will go ahead and try to make a video showing my FP at the different levels of boost up to 6-8psi so that people can see.
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Old 06-05-2012, 12:28 AM   #132
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^ I run my car all day long at 14psi (~270 whp) on a Walbro 255, never had any issues at all, including track days.

Do you really think the fuel is still hot after it passed right by the injectors and was returned to the tank? When does it have time to get hot?

And that's a long return run to cool off on the way back even if it DID get hot. This detail is a non-issue IMO.
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Old 06-05-2012, 01:15 AM   #133
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^ I am going off of the guidance of the engineer that I spoke with at length about which pump to install in my car as long as I planned on staying under 400hp. He was one of the designers of the fuel pump itself for the 190/255. Who knows, perhaps he is mistaken, but then again maybe he isn't and according to him Walboro has done extensive studies in regards to what serviceability is provided at each level or their products. Some folks chose to completely over engineer what they have and others chose to balance things out. I have seen plenty of cases where over engineering in the long run caused more harm then good. Your case very well could be one of those exceptions. I hope that it is for you, but for me I will always perform due diligence and do what is best for me. If I happen upon information from what I consider a solid source then I will always pass it along and leave those that I give it the chance to use it for their projects or not. It is of course ultimately their own choice.
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Old 06-05-2012, 01:35 AM   #134
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Agreed on all counts. I'll take my real world experience (3 builds so far all with the same results with respect to fuel pumps) over that engineer, and agree to disagree.

Explain again (I can't find it in this thread) why a stronger pump isn't a good idea, when you can regulate the pressure to whatever you want.

I used an Aeromotive A1000 in my tC, that is good up to I think over 1000 hp, and I was pushing 440 whp. Just a further example....
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Old 06-05-2012, 09:02 PM   #135
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I know that warming fuel in the tank has a negative affect on fuel mileage. This is the whole reason of new cars going with the returnless system.
Most Tuners go overkill as a method of extra piece of mind and give room for futher performance gains later.

I will be replacing my pump because the shrader valve at the outlet of the pump that maintains fuel pressure when the car turns off is intermittantly not working giving me a long crank time. I think I may stay with the 255lph as I will be trying for that 300whp goal. Blown XA is pulling it off without a sleeved motor and has been reliable so far. I will try the same.
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Old 06-06-2012, 07:21 AM   #136
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I see a lot of tuning shops are charging big money for balancing motors. I spoke with some people about this while doing my rebuild. Then I called a very reputable shop locally that builds some monster motors 1000hp +. and I asked him if they could balance my rotating assembly. He first asked what motor it is. I explaned it was a inline four cyl. He told me balancing is not nearly as important on a inline motor as a V motor. I told him the brands of parts I am using for pistons and rods. He said that Pauter and CP are excellent brands that will balance there parts before shipping them out. He said its really not needed and didn't want to waste my money. My friend "dent guy" who helped me with my engine build is runing a inline 2jz with over 900whp and off the shelf rods and pistons is not having any problems. Just thought this is good info for those thinking of a rebuild.
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Old 06-06-2012, 09:40 PM   #137
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Was the shop you spoke to a machine shop? Or a performance shop?

There are numerous advantages to balancing a motor. Balancing goes hand-in-hand with performance engine building. Balancing reduces internal loads and vibrations that stress metal and may eventually lead to component failure. But is it worth the time and effort for mild performance applications, everyday passenger car engines or low-buck rebuilds?

From a technical point of view, every engine regardless of the application or its selling price can benefit from balancing. A smoother-running engine is also a more powerful engine. Less energy is wasted by the crank as it thrashes about in its bearings, which translates into a little more usable power at the flywheel. Reducing engine vibration also reduces stress on motor mounts and external accessories.

Though all engines are balanced from the factory (some to a better degree than others), the original balance is lost when the pistons, connecting rods or crankshaft are replaced or interchanged with those from other engines. The factory balance job is based on the reciprocating weight of the OE pistons and rods. If any replacements or substitutions are made, there’s no guarantee the new parts will match the weights of the original parts closely enough to retain the original balance. Most aftermarket replacement parts are "balanced" to the average weight of the OEM parts, which may or may not be close enough to maintain a reasonable degree of balance inside the engine.
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Old 06-06-2012, 09:48 PM   #138
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I didn't balance my lower end -- doin' just fine over here.

Unless you go the "blank check" route, you have to make choices on which motor work to do that will get you "just a little bit more".
I chose to do what would make the most power for the money I could spend on my build.

Hasn't been a reliability issue - at all.
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:40 PM   #139
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When you start doing things like "knife edging" the crank or offset grinding the journals then it can really mess with the balance or a rotating assembly. The machine shop all of us local guys use (including Sound Performance and AMS) has never seen a 2J crank out of balance. During my first engine build I went over kill with the machine shop and had them do a dynamic balance of the entire rotating assy. (Wiseco pistons, Carillo rods, ATI damper, RPS carbon clutch) Guess what... it need no adjustments.
Now im no Yaris expert but it seems to me that a clean and centered install of the Main caps will free up more power than having that .0001 grams balanced out of the crank. Certain motors will benifit from the additional balancing (V formats mainly) but Inline engines dont inflict the type of counteracting forces on the crank that the V styles engines do.
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:58 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TURBO YARIS View Post
Was the shop you spoke to a machine shop? Or a performance shop?

There are numerous advantages to balancing a motor. Balancing goes hand-in-hand with performance engine building. Balancing reduces internal loads and vibrations that stress metal and may eventually lead to component failure. But is it worth the time and effort for mild performance applications, everyday passenger car engines or low-buck rebuilds?

From a technical point of view, every engine regardless of the application or its selling price can benefit from balancing. A smoother-running engine is also a more powerful engine. Less energy is wasted by the crank as it thrashes about in its bearings, which translates into a little more usable power at the flywheel. Reducing engine vibration also reduces stress on motor mounts and

Though all engines are balanced from the factory (some to a better degree than others), the original balance is lost when the pistons, connecting rods or crankshaft are replaced or interchanged with those from other engines. The factory balance job is based on the reciprocating weight of the OE pistons and rods. If any replacements or substitutions are made, there’s no guarantee the new parts will match the weights of the original parts closely enough to retain the original balance. Most aftermarket replacement parts are "balanced" to the average weight of the OEM parts, which may or may not be close enough to maintain a reasonable degree of balance inside the engine.
This was a very reputable machine shop in the Chicago burbs. He told me that quality after market rods and pistons will be balanced to within a tenth of a gram. I assembled my engine and it runs perfect. No vibration.
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Old 06-07-2012, 10:31 AM   #141
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I didn't balance my lower end -- doin' just fine over here.

Unless you go the "blank check" route, you have to make choices on which motor work to do that will get you "just a little bit more".
I chose to do what would make the most power for the money I could spend on my build.

Hasn't been a reliability issue - at all.
How much does it cost to balance a motor in CA? Its only $200-$250 here.
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Old 06-07-2012, 10:35 AM   #142
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This was a very reputable machine shop in the Chicago burbs. He told me that quality after market rods and pistons will be balanced to within a tenth of a gram. I assembled my engine and it runs perfect. No vibration.
Balancing is done on the crank also. If you replace the lighter factory rods and pistons with the heavier aftermaket rods & pistons the balance has to be off. I not saying that your motor will break just cause you didnt balance it. I just saying it is an advantage in reliability & HP if you do.

And the reliability will be long term not short term.
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Old 06-07-2012, 03:06 PM   #143
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^ How long?

Almost two years beating on it so far. Seems pretty reliable to me. I wonder if blown_xA balanced his. He's been beating on that thing for a while as well.

I'm not saying no one should do it; I'm saying my experience is that it hasn't been needed on my build projects.
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Old 06-08-2012, 12:05 PM   #144
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balancing a four cylinder engine is just a waste. Your info really is only good for massive engines or older ones.

Modern engines come off the line almost perfectly specced, and aftermarket companies can now have all the same equipment and ability that the manufacturers have.

This isn't the 60's anymore. There are a lot of things people did as a a matter of course on those cars that is totally useless on ours.
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