"Parmas" Motor

[cali yaris]

ooh, exciting! I'm very glad you checked the compression yourself, proving the first tuner to be wrong, making excuses like that for his lack of skill.

Good luck and we're all waiting to see how she does!

[Parmas]

Today I went to my tuner to discuss how we can get this right....

Well there is some issues we need to face and we are unsure whether the management used is capable to tune VVTi correctly.

1st problem: Mode selection

- On the ecu there are 8 Modes one can select, from batch fire with single coil mode to Full Sequential mode. The only problem I am seeing is the Crank Trigger. If you refer to the attachment you can notice Mode 6 - Phased Sequential with multicoils, Crank Trigger 36 -1 input, no TDC (which is my current setup). According to H3ilton, our engine crank trigger is 34. If he is right, (and we will check about this to confirm) the ecu will not support this crank trigger and so tuning cannot be done efficiently.

- 2nd Problem: VVTi control

The ecu surely support VVT with an on and off rpm setting but since now we cannot find a way in the ecu's software that can tune on a range of degree angles. We only can signal the camshaft timing plunger at a certain (still unknown) pulse modulation frequency at a set RPM number. Still, when signaling the plunger we don't know for sure how the cam will react in terms of degrees but we are assuming that when not signaling the plunger the engine is fully retarded and when singaling the engine is fully advanced. At this point, if we are assuming right, the midrange power will be affected drastically. If I am right our engine varies timing within a range of 40Degrees.

In order to solve this problem, my tuner recommended of eliminating the VVTi by making the stock camshaft fixed (if it can be done) or else upgrading the cams.

- 3rd Problem: Ignition Coils

I was thinking of putting the stock ignition coils as members of this forum suggested but when talking with my tuner he said that the ecu do not support the stock 4wire coil with igniters. In order to work we need 2wire coils that are capable to work with the ecu. (Refer to attachment) First wiring diagram shows my current setup while the other shows the wiring diagram for full sequential

- 4th Problem: Installing TDC - Currently not used

According the Toyota Engine manual page 40, the stock ecu use the camshaft position sensor (TDC) to make the VVTi work efficient. Our ecu supports this feature and it could be installed without problems. So I ask, is the TDC a must to have it installed to make the VVTi work properly on a standalone management?


Any suggestions are apprectiated

[cali yaris]

I've asked my tuner your question, Parmas.

But what did GoTech say? Since it's their tuning computer, they should be able to answer most of your questions.

[Parmas]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

I've asked my tuner your question, Parmas.

But what did GoTech say? Since it's their tuning computer, they should be able to answer most of your questions.

I am awaiting response from them but certainly many engines that work with pulse modulation frequencies vary from engine to engine model. I think at this point it is more a Toyota thing than Gotech but thats just me.

What does the tuner told you about this Garm?

[Parmas]

Here is a link for the sake of the people who don't know what we are discussing about: Pulse width modulation frequency

http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Perfo...4/article.html

[cali yaris]

The AEM EMS has a wizard for Toyota motors, I believe it automatically sets parameters for VVTI. So I'm not sure I'll be able to answer your question, but Art is going to look into it further.

[Parmas]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

The AEM EMS has a wizard for Toyota motors, I believe it automatically sets parameters for VVTI. So I'm not sure I'll be able to answer your question, but Art is going to look into it further.

You are a life saver thank for your support and God Bless your management

Current Setting are :

- Frequency @ 60Hz = 3600rpm / minute

- DutyCycle @ 7.1% = 4.25s / minute

What do you think about the other issues I mentioned apart PWM?

[rob323]

To me, it sounds more likely that the problem is the engine management, than the engine. Might be cheaper to use something like Adaptronic which utilises all the factory sensor & igniters and has continuously variable control over the vvti.

I'll pm you an email conversation I had with Adaptronic recently.

[Parmas]

Originally Posted by rob323

To me, it sounds more likely that the problem is the engine management, than the engine. Might be cheaper to use something like Adaptronic which utilises all the factory sensor & igniters and has continuously variable control over the vvti.

I'll pm you an email conversation I had with Adaptronic recently.

I checked the specs of the e420c and seem that VVTi isn't mentioned but as you sent me the pm it seems it can eventually.

I am going to give the last try to the present management if tuning fails again then I have to change it to another that accepts VVTi or I have to consider removing VVTi completely like many honda removing Vtec.... will see what comes up next

[rob323]

Yes, that was why I emailed them. To make sure.
I haven't played enough with these motors to find out just where the cam sits when the vvti solenoid is unplugged but maybe that is the best way for you to do it now unless you can get the continuously variable control working.

[Parmas]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

The AEM EMS has a wizard for Toyota motors, I believe it automatically sets parameters for VVTI. So I'm not sure I'll be able to answer your question, but Art is going to look into it further.

Garm I have an idea..... if we connect an oscilloscope on the signal wire of the valve timing control on a stock 1NZFE with a stock ecu, we could know eventually the frequency and duty cycle at all rpm ranges.

The problem is I don't own one damn... or else someone could check with a toyota expert on this .... maybe H3ilton


Edit: I found a waveform of the camshaft timing valve here on page 33 http://www.etimago.com/yaris/repairm...%20Control.pdf

Can anyone translate it in terms of frequency or duty cycle?

I uploaded some pages of the manual that relates to VVT information

[cali yaris]

^ we know that works too. Just not as much control in tuning.

[cali yaris]

wow, now that is over my head, sorry!

[Parmas]

I told this to a friend and he said that from the look of the waveform he concludes that it is at:

Frequency 1000Hz because frequency = 1 \ t and since the waveform shows 1ms\div so = 1 \ 0.001s = 1000Hz

Duty 33% because the waveform shows 3 pulses each about a bit longer than each division. Since there are 10divisions and 3 pulses (each a bit longer) ......... so 1pulse = 1.1 x 3 = 3.3.... 3.3div out of 10div = 33%

Garm can your tuner confirm this?

[cali yaris]

I haven't heard back yet

[Parmas]

Explained more in detail from where these values came.... if there is a mistake don't hesitate to post why and of course the right answer :)

By the way previous tuner set these values to 60Hz and 7.1% in which if the "new" values are correct, with the present values I have on my ecu there is a high possibility that the valve is never being activated and it is always on the most retard state at all loads and rpm!!! that explains roughy state etc...

[rob323]

I don't think your frequency value is correct. If each division is one millisecond (which isn't entirely clear), then each pulse appears to be about 3.5 milliseconds apart, which correlates to approx. 285Hz. I agree with the 33% duty cycle amount though.

[Yaris Hilton]

Thanks for the link, Parmas!