"Parmas" Motor

[Parmas]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

"some people saying" means nothing to me. Show me some results and I will be very interested, although I'm not trading away the ability to run high boost on pump gas - that is way too much fun to give up!

In my opinion Water Injection is used to cool mixture and to be able to run higher boost values but with that said, doesn't mean it gives you power by itself. Is that right?

I happen to be in a forum to discuss these things before commiting myself into it. I am not saying they are right or wrong, I just want your opinions like Etimago commented and I am sure all good things have their bad things.
I don't carry lots of cash to try these things, I am here to knowledge myself more and prevent disappointment for future upgrades..

[cali yaris]

^ I'm here for that too, have learned a lot. Yes, I would agree that water doesn't add power by itself. But at cooler intake/cylinder temperatures (which is what the water does), more fuel is in the available air, and that makes more power. This would be true whether or not there is boost.

A good example of this is that a Cold Air Intake adds power to a stock car (n/a), simply by cooling down the incoming air. Water injection does the same thing, to my understanding.

What I meant was "some people saying" doesn't help any of us. Doesn't it depend on who said it, when they said it, and what they were talking about? So my request, respectfully is to be more specific in that regard.

[Parmas]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

A good example of this is that a Cold Air Intake adds power to a stock car (n/a), simply by cooling down the incoming air. Water injection does the same thing, to my understanding.

I understand your thought so I ask what is the better?

- Having a very good intercooler that keeps the air as cold as possible

OR

- Cooling Mixture with water injection

In my opinion cooling the air without water injection by having a better intercooler is the point were you will see power gains without compensating with extra boost (less wear and tear). What are your opinions on this guys?

[cali yaris]

It's just as easy to do water/meth injection and get the octane boost from the alcohol. I wouldn't bother with all the effort for just water.

[Parmas]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

It's just as easy to do water/meth injection and get the octane boost from the alcohol. I wouldn't bother with all the effort for just water.

Can you tell us by how much the water injection on your setup lowered the intake temps ?

[cali yaris]

No, (1) because we changed the manifold too and (2) we haven't tuned on the dyno yet (wastegate failed last time).

Hoping for a new appointment next week!

[changchewsoon]

thanks a lot garm and parmas, it is because of people like you guys all over the world inspires people like to me to want to push the 1nz-fe further! :)

i too can't wait to see garm's latest update and also parmas's build....man just thinking about them gives me goosebumps!

i've learnt a lot just by reading both your threads.

[Parmas]

Originally Posted by changchewsoon

thanks a lot garm and parmas, it is because of people like you guys all over the world inspires people like to me to want to push the 1nz-fe further! :)

i too can't wait to see garm's latest update and also parmas's build....man just thinking about them gives me goosebumps!

i've learnt a lot just by reading both your threads.

That is why we post here my friend !

Of course we are many here and I think there are more than just us building the ultimate 1NZ so please contribute your info

[Parmas]

Update:

Let me revise the situation.... During the last months I had my tuner claiming that the problem of the tune up was coming from a loss of compression. Since there were too much money to repair and buy the extra parts I decided to hold the project until I had further cash in my hands.

During the time, I came accross one of my friends who is an expert on this and decided to help me out on this. Of course we began by checking the compression again and duhhh it came out that it is good on all 4 cyclinders. We retried again the test and still no problems.

Seeing this out he told me to change the tuner and retry the tune again. I went to talk with the new tuner and he told me that we need to check all the necessary wiring in case the previous tuner messed up something. We indeed found some wiring not matching with the ecu instruction manual regarding VVT connection so this might be the problem.

The other thing that might mess up with the tune is that the ECU supports VVT but not VVTi. There is an option to activate the VVT at a certain rpm and switch it off at another rpm. I contacted the ecu company for more info on this and he said that the ecu was tested and tuned succesfully on a 1ZZFE VVTi engine.

I booked a tuning session for next week so until then crossed fingers

[cali yaris]

ooh, exciting! I'm very glad you checked the compression yourself, proving the first tuner to be wrong, making excuses like that for his lack of skill.

Good luck and we're all waiting to see how she does!

[Parmas]

Today I went to my tuner to discuss how we can get this right....

Well there is some issues we need to face and we are unsure whether the management used is capable to tune VVTi correctly.

1st problem: Mode selection

- On the ecu there are 8 Modes one can select, from batch fire with single coil mode to Full Sequential mode. The only problem I am seeing is the Crank Trigger. If you refer to the attachment you can notice Mode 6 - Phased Sequential with multicoils, Crank Trigger 36 -1 input, no TDC (which is my current setup). According to H3ilton, our engine crank trigger is 34. If he is right, (and we will check about this to confirm) the ecu will not support this crank trigger and so tuning cannot be done efficiently.

- 2nd Problem: VVTi control

The ecu surely support VVT with an on and off rpm setting but since now we cannot find a way in the ecu's software that can tune on a range of degree angles. We only can signal the camshaft timing plunger at a certain (still unknown) pulse modulation frequency at a set RPM number. Still, when signaling the plunger we don't know for sure how the cam will react in terms of degrees but we are assuming that when not signaling the plunger the engine is fully retarded and when singaling the engine is fully advanced. At this point, if we are assuming right, the midrange power will be affected drastically. If I am right our engine varies timing within a range of 40Degrees.

In order to solve this problem, my tuner recommended of eliminating the VVTi by making the stock camshaft fixed (if it can be done) or else upgrading the cams.

- 3rd Problem: Ignition Coils

I was thinking of putting the stock ignition coils as members of this forum suggested but when talking with my tuner he said that the ecu do not support the stock 4wire coil with igniters. In order to work we need 2wire coils that are capable to work with the ecu. (Refer to attachment) First wiring diagram shows my current setup while the other shows the wiring diagram for full sequential

- 4th Problem: Installing TDC - Currently not used

According the Toyota Engine manual page 40, the stock ecu use the camshaft position sensor (TDC) to make the VVTi work efficient. Our ecu supports this feature and it could be installed without problems. So I ask, is the TDC a must to have it installed to make the VVTi work properly on a standalone management?


Any suggestions are apprectiated

[cali yaris]

I've asked my tuner your question, Parmas.

But what did GoTech say? Since it's their tuning computer, they should be able to answer most of your questions.

[Parmas]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

I've asked my tuner your question, Parmas.

But what did GoTech say? Since it's their tuning computer, they should be able to answer most of your questions.

I am awaiting response from them but certainly many engines that work with pulse modulation frequencies vary from engine to engine model. I think at this point it is more a Toyota thing than Gotech but thats just me.

What does the tuner told you about this Garm?

[Parmas]

Here is a link for the sake of the people who don't know what we are discussing about: Pulse width modulation frequency

http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Perfo...4/article.html

[cali yaris]

The AEM EMS has a wizard for Toyota motors, I believe it automatically sets parameters for VVTI. So I'm not sure I'll be able to answer your question, but Art is going to look into it further.

[Parmas]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

The AEM EMS has a wizard for Toyota motors, I believe it automatically sets parameters for VVTI. So I'm not sure I'll be able to answer your question, but Art is going to look into it further.

You are a life saver thank for your support and God Bless your management

Current Setting are :

- Frequency @ 60Hz = 3600rpm / minute

- DutyCycle @ 7.1% = 4.25s / minute

What do you think about the other issues I mentioned apart PWM?

[rob323]

To me, it sounds more likely that the problem is the engine management, than the engine. Might be cheaper to use something like Adaptronic which utilises all the factory sensor & igniters and has continuously variable control over the vvti.

I'll pm you an email conversation I had with Adaptronic recently.

[Parmas]

Originally Posted by rob323

To me, it sounds more likely that the problem is the engine management, than the engine. Might be cheaper to use something like Adaptronic which utilises all the factory sensor & igniters and has continuously variable control over the vvti.

I'll pm you an email conversation I had with Adaptronic recently.

I checked the specs of the e420c and seem that VVTi isn't mentioned but as you sent me the pm it seems it can eventually.

I am going to give the last try to the present management if tuning fails again then I have to change it to another that accepts VVTi or I have to consider removing VVTi completely like many honda removing Vtec.... will see what comes up next