"Parmas" Motor

[cdydjded]

Originally Posted by Bluevitz-rs

His car's a first gen, so it would be bolt on.

Good point, there you go, there's a low cost logical option : )

[Parmas]

Originally Posted by cdydjded

Good point, there you go, there's a low cost logical option : )

Low cost? I just went to the weapon r website and the price is as high as $600 + $? shipping. The 2ZZ intake + throttle body + shipping was $300. Add a $50 job to make the adjustments + $80 intake flange.

For about $430 I get an intake with only welding on the flange, a 70mm throttle body which the weapon -r don't include and if I am not mistaken the runners of the 2ZZ are shorter which is better.

Also I can add $20 for polish and spray the intake as shiny as the weapon-r and that would be all.

I done my homework

[cdydjded]

1) Whats on their website is retail, no one pays retail.
2) Here is the intake for $478, just $48 more than what you think you cost of modifictions will be http://www.airintakeheaven.com/produ...=p2735-c125825
3) I find it hard to beleive that you are only going to pay $50 to make the 2zz runners match the 1nz ports. The pic you post clearly show that the ports do not lin up at all. There is at least a 1/2 difference between them

Like i said please prove me wrong. Theory (homework) vs practice (actually doing it).......

[Parmas]

$478 dollars should be a good deal if it includes shipping costs, duty charges and a throttle body!

Don't get me wrong but I forgot to tell you that one of the main reasons I decided for the 2ZZ intake, is that I like to own unique parts for my build.

As regards to not believing in paying $50 should be understood from here. The person in charge of this, worked all the stainless intercooler piping, exhaust manifold, turbo downpipe, rear mounting hardend and full exhaust on my car. Since a lot of work was done, he is ready to take off some $ from the total as I was a fellow customer through out these years. Cheers

[cali yaris]

^ If you take his post in its entirety and don't cherry pick one sentence, you can see that what he meant by "waste" is that you don't get your money back out of the investment in a tangible way.

turboecho has spent more than most of us on his projects and was happy to do it. You can see by the last sentence that he is cheering Parmas on.

carlos, you have 633 posts -- is there one where you admit you're wrong, about anything?

Go for it Parmas, keep at it - your build has taught me a few things.

I think a Mod should delete all this crap - including mine.

[cdydjded]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

carlos, you have 633 posts -- is there one where you admit you're wrong, about anything?

Just for you, Post 309
http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/sho...=30308&page=18

[Focus_Sh1ft]

The location of your oil drain looks fine...

Out of curiosity, what is your cold idle RPMs? I had a lot of blow-by during idle when I had a 1ZZ TB on. cdydjded pointed out that the higher RPM at cold start was causing excessive oil pressure because the polymer strands haven't had enough time to warm up and expand. Hopefully I explained that right. More importantly though, when I put the 1NZ TB back on and effectively lowered the cold idle RPMs, blow-by seemed to have disappeared.

[Parmas]

Originally Posted by Focus_Sh1ft

The location of your oil drain looks fine...

Out of curiosity, what is your cold idle RPMs? I had a lot of blow-by during idle when I had a 1ZZ TB on. cdydjded pointed out that the higher RPM at cold start was causing excessive oil pressure because the polymer strands haven't had enough time to warm up and expand. Hopefully I explained that right. More importantly though, when I put the 1NZ TB back on and effectively lowered the cold idle RPMs, blow-by seemed to have disappeared.

I set cold idle to be above 2000 rpm until it reaches 50C it quits to 1400. I set this high rpm as noticed many factory cars use the same technique to warm the engine quickly to operational point. Mine warms up within a minute or two on idle.

I don't think this is related to the oil leak since when the oil is cold it is thicker than when it's hot so if it leaks at 2000rpm when cold it should also leak when at 1400rpm when hot!

Also I was thinking that maybe the engine needs to breath more through the Top Cover. I was thinking of maybe making bigger inner diameter fittings and a larger breather on the outside. Could it be one of the issues?

[Parmas]

Today I woke adventurous and tried to explain myself why this oil leak is happening.

Since the turbo is behind the engine, compactly placed between the rear of the engine bay and a squid form long manifold it was always like a taboo for me since it is out of reach. I managed to reach the lower inlet part of the turbo and got a nice black oil leak on my finger. If I could explain more exactly, it was exactly at the Big Circlip on the lower intake side (The upper side is dry)Attachment 2743Attachment 2742Attachment 2741. A walk with my finger around it feeled wet (but not much with oil).

During my adventure I noticed the turbo oil feed and drain. They are not exactly in a vertical position (feed north and drain south) but they look more (feed NorthWest and drain South east). Apart of that, the drain is fixed with a 45 degree fitting and then slanting (not vertical) downwards.

The last picture posted why the turbo was mounted this way up because if we tilted more it would hit the engine top cover. So I ask, is there a way to clock the turbo right to get a vertical feed to drain? Also When clocking the turbo will it move only the center bearing housing?

[cdydjded]

This might answer most of you questions:
Oil Drain
In general, the larger the oil drain, the better. However, a -10AN is typically sufficient
for proper oil drainage, but try not to have an inner diameter smaller than the drain hole
in the housing as this will likely cause the oil to back up in the center housing. Speaking
of oil backing up in the center housing, a gravity feed needs to be just that! The oil
outlet should follow the direction of gravity +/-35° when installed in the vehicle on level
ground. If a gravity feed is not possible, a scavenge pump should be used to insure that
oil flows freely away from the center housing.
Avoid:
Undulations in the line or extended lengths parallel to the ground
Draining into oil pan below oil level
Dead heading into a component behind the oil pan
Area behind the oil pan (windage tray window) where oil sling occurs from crankshaft
When installing your turbocharger, insure that the turbocharger axis of rotation is parallel
to the level ground within +/- 15°. This means that the oil inlet/outlet should be within
15° of being perpendicular to level ground.

BTW are you using an oil inlet restricter? If not you might have to much oil pressure going into the turbo. That will cause leaks.

[Parmas]

Thanks cdydjded...

The drain is about double the size of the feed that is sure.

What do you mean by scavenge pump?

I don't know exactly what do you mean by oil inlet restrictor but the turbo feed fitting has an inner hole diameter of about 2~3mm

I know ball bearing turbos don't need much oil to work efficiently but how can I know I am giving the right amount of oil flow/pressure?

[cdydjded]

Dont worry about the scavenge pump. It really doesnt apply to your issue. You oil feed line should be a -3 or -4 hose & your oil return should be a -8 or -10.

Here is a pic of the oil feed pressure restrictor:
resize.jpg

This lowers the oil pressure going into the turbo. You dont need any more than 30-40psi of oil to go into the turbo.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by cdydjded

Dont worry about the scavenge pump. It really doesnt apply to your issue. You oil feed line should be a -3 or -4 hose & your oil return should be a -8 or -10.

Here is a pic of the oil feed pressure restrictor:
Attachment 39382

This lowers the oil pressure going into the turbo. You dont need any more than 30-40psi of oil to go into the turbo.

Question. What if the restrictor is placed not on the turbo itself but from the feeding source and the the feed line run from it to the turbo. You should get the same pressure through the line to the turbo right. Reason i ask is that it would be a real pain and much labor for me to take out the turbo to put the restrictor on it. I would rather put it on the source.

[cdydjded]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Question. What if the restrictor is placed not on the turbo itself but from the feeding source and the the feed line run from it to the turbo. You should get the same pressure through the line to the turbo right. Reason i ask is that it would be a real pain and much labor for me to take out the turbo to put the restrictor on it. I would rather put it on the source.

The position on the restrictor (on the turbo or off the oil feed log) doesnt matter. Either way will lower the oil pressure to the turbo.

[haschel]

Oil pressure in the turbo must be:

Idle hot: 5 psi
Maximum load: 25 psi

Idle hot min. flow: 0.1 gal/min
Maximum load: 0.5 gal/min

[Parmas]

Originally Posted by haschel

Oil pressure in the turbo must be:

Idle hot: 5 psi
Maximum load: 25 psi

Idle hot min. flow: 0.1 gal/min
Maximum load: 0.5 gal/min

From where did you get this information? Is it a general rule on ball bearing turbos?

[haschel]

I take this information in the book Maximum Boost from Corky Bell

http://www.amazon.com/Maximum-Boost-...5120802&sr=8-1

A very good book for custom turbo kit builder :)

[cdydjded]

Originally Posted by haschel

I take this information in the book Maximum Boost from Corky Bell

http://www.amazon.com/Maximum-Boost-...5120802&sr=8-1

A very good book for custom turbo kit builder :)

As good as that book is, you cant take everything from it literally. It was written 15yrs ago & ALOT has changed.