The open political discussion thread. Read the first post!

[supmet]

Originally Posted by Phaeton

Everybody has an opinion on how the U.S. got to this point.
I'd like to here peoples ideas how to get us out of this mess.
Any ideas welcome.

I know every likes to blame greed. Greed from the consumers, greed from the banks, greed all around. I tend to agree with all of it, except greed from the banks.

Now yes, in the end, it was greed that caused the banks to give out ridiculous loans - but not greed thinking they were gonna make money off of the loans. They knew the bailout money was coming for years. I REFUSE to believe, people with degrees in economics and banking, actually thought there was ANY chance someone making 30k a year would ever pay back a 500k loan.

Ya the government "encouraged" looser loans, but nobody was holding guns to bankers' heads telling them they HAD to give out crappy loans. They knew what they were doing, and they knew it would inevitably collapse their company. But hey, who cares right? You can get billions in bailouts, and give millions to all your execs. Everyone important got taken care of, and now - America is in a state of emergency, its favorite place to be.

When everything is perfect in America, the people will not vote to change anything. When everything is going to shit, the people will give up their right to vote, and allow the government to pass ANYTHING(see patriot act).. This has pretty much been the standard operating procedure for the united states for quite some time. To get things done, there needs to be an emergency that is either completely made up, blown way out of proportion, or we knowingly let people attack us - (gulf of tonkin, pearl harbor, 9/11)

The banking collapse is just the latest emergency orchestrated to make you vote for some stupid shit, and act without thinking.

How to get out of it? Let the chaff burn and move on with your life. I still have all the essentials for life, and nobody is trying to kill me. The economy will bounce back on its own, thinking you can artificially control the economy is perhaps the dumbest thing I've heard in a while.

If you want immediate fixes -

1)legalize drugs - billions and billions made on taxes, trillions saved in the DEA, all gangs in america will become ABSOLUTELY POWERLESS over night. Marijuana farmers and drug manufacturers will bring new jobs too :D

2)drop homeland security - again, trillions saved. Homeland security has been responsible for the detainment of exactly ONE so called "terrorist" group, that was just a bunch of rednecks that wanted to blow some shit up. Not to mention they impede on my rights on a daily basis.

3)raise taxes on cigarettes and alcohol - two of the least affected industries by the failing economy. alcohol sales have actually been UP in some months.

4)raise taxes on any making over 500k a year - Ya

5) fire everyone at the IRS and start over new. The fact that people making 40 grand a year get audited is fucking insane. Go spend some time getting the trillions of dollars owed by big businesses and leave people trying to survive alone.

6)take back all the bailout money, all the money you're saving on not having homeland security and the DEA, and give it back to the people, who need it.

[jambo101]

Originally Posted by supmet

6)take back all the bailout money,

The reps seem really at odds with this bailout issue,I'm not a big fan of taxpayer funded bailouts but in this case it was a necessary evil,to let the core of your financial system collapse would have lost America its financial credibility around the world and in this time of global markets and economies the reprecussions of such an event would have made the great depression seem like a picnic,Generations of living beyond ones means has finally caught up to America and its time to pay the piper.But i do have confidence in Americas resiliency that it will emerge from this mess and remain one of the best countries in the world to live to fulfill ones dreams.

[supmet]

Originally Posted by jambo101

The reps seem really at odds with this bailout issue,I'm not a big fan of taxpayer funded bailouts but in this case it was a necessary evil,to let the core of your financial system collapse would have lost America its financial credibility around the world and in this time of global markets and economies the reprecussions of such an event would have made the great depression seem like a picnic,Generations of living beyond ones means has finally caught up to America and its time to pay the piper.But i do have confidence in Americas resiliency that it will emerge from this mess and remain one of the best countries in the world to live to fulfill ones dreams.

See what I mean?

"normally I'm against it, but in THIS case............"

This is EXACTLY what I was talking about america creating legislation out of "emergency" This fact is only compounded 100 times by the fact there is NO true journalism on TV(where 90% of americans get their news), and every reporter is getting paid to feed you lies.

Make an emergency. Use the news to blow it out of proportion. Pass any law you want. rinse. repeat.


The shit was gonna hit the fan regardless of the banking/housing fiasco. Labor prices in china going up = all the business that were just barely getting by repackaging chinese goods are fucked. Unskilled labor(and even some skilled labor) being replaced by robots and machines = huge unemployment rates. Giving good money to bad people isn't gonna make any situation better.

Stop making rash knee-jerk reactions. Let the people who are bad with money run their course to bankruptcy. Let the smart people who didn't lose money take over. The government and the people need to stop needless spending. Some hard work and buckling down is the only thing that will get us out... Throwing money away is only going to make it worse.

[jambo101]

Originally Posted by supmet

This is EXACTLY what I was talking about america creating legislation out of "emergency" This fact is only compounded 100 times by the fact there is NO true journalism on TV(where 90% of americans get their news), and every reporter is getting paid to feed you lies.

Make an emergency. Use the news to blow it out of proportion. Pass any law you want. rinse. repeat.

So if all the news media are feeding us lies and BS where do you get your reliable sources of news?.

[supmet]

Originally Posted by jambo101

So if all the news media are feeding us lies and BS where do you get your reliable sources of news?.

The most truthful news show on TV is the daily show. Really if you don't understand how horribly filtered, scripted, paid off fox, cnn, and nbc are, you need to watch the daily show. I don't align all my views with Jon Stewart, but his show has done more for journalism than anything in my lifetime. When they play 17 news clips in a row from 5 different stations, and the reporters are all spitting the same lines word for word, I don't need much more proof that the major news corporations are all reading from the same script they were handed. When Stewart made Cramer look like the worlds biggest ass, and called him out on being a sell out, Cramer could say nothing. Yet he still has a show on CNBC. Yes the guy that told you to buy AIG, told you to buy bear sterns, and there is video evidence of him recommending short selling - he's giving you economic advice still.

Aside from the daily show, the internet is my primary news source

[jambo101]

I watched Jon Stewart show on a recent trip to Fla.Very good show,unfortunately he doesnt get televised up here in Canada.we get CBC newsworld Cnn,cbs,Nbc and Abc and we get nothing like Beck ,Limbaugh,Hannity,Coulter,OReilly and the like.

[enobmort42]

Originally Posted by jambo101

I watched Jon Stewart show on a recent trip to Fla.Very good show,unfortunately he doesnt get televised up here in Canada.we get CBC newsworld Cnn,cbs,Nbc and Abc and we get nothing like Beck ,Limbaugh,Hannity,Coulter,OReilly and the like.

that's unfortunate. i've recently been turned on to the FreeTalkLive podcasts. google it and check out an episode. they're all about giving a less biased/more objective look at the issues.

when i'm not listening to that, i've got my radio set to Real Radio 104.1. i've never been a fan of talk radio until i heard this station =P

[Phaeton]

Originally Posted by jambo101

So if all the news media are feeding us lies and BS where do you get your reliable sources of news?.

www.fark.com I get allll my news from there.

[jambo101]

Originally Posted by Phaeton

www.fark.com I get allll my news from there.

Interesting news site,definitely gets away from most of the political crap.