I predict gas will be $3(nyc) by summer, national avg $2.80

[Bob Dog]

Typical rightie; find a straw dog to bark at and yap with the pack when some else does. My name is not Al Gore. Not all of us need any one leader to form our opinions. You do not like the idea that the ice caps are melting so you deny the fact to both yourself and others: its called willful ignorance and it is meat and bread of retro right.

[daf62757]

Originally Posted by Bob Dog

Typical rightie; find a straw dog to bark at and yap with the pack when some else does. My name is not Al Gore. Not all of us need any one leader to form our opinions. You do not like the idea that the ice caps are melting so you deny the fact to both yourself and others: its called willful ignorance and it is meat and bread of retro right.

Typical rightie? I doubt it.

[roxy1]

Originally Posted by Bob Dog

Typical rightie; find a straw dog to bark at and yap with the pack when some else does. My name is not Al Gore. Not all of us need any one leader to form our opinions. You do not like the idea that the ice caps are melting so you deny the fact to both yourself and others: its called willful ignorance and it is meat and bread of retro right.

no one is denying the ice caps are melting. yes, they are indeed. they have before, and they will again. and, yes, global warming is an undisputable fact. not one scientist in the world will dipute that. that humans have cause it is wholly unproven, since temperature changes in similar time frames have happened in the distant past, before fossil fuels were part of this earth.

al gore loves to talk about the unprecedented changes in the patterns of the melting ice caps. it is not unprecedented, and he has been proven to be unknowlegeable on this. secondly, the satellite images he loves to reference have only been used for about 30 years to monitor the polar ice cap.

science being unable to prove global warming is human induced isnt the same as denying that there is global warming. willful ignorance is the inability to understand the empirical requirements that make up legitimate research and the historical context of global warming patterns over the history of the planet.

none of this means that humans havent contributed to global warming, but global warming patterns over the history of the earth combined with the current time frame most people reference for the current warming have made it difficult thus far to prove any cause and effect.

[Altitude]

Originally Posted by roxy1

secondly, the satellite images he loves to reference have only been used for about 30 years to monitor the polar ice cap.
.

Yeah it's a shame that we haven't been using satellite imagery to monitor the ice caps for hundreds of years now...oh wait...satellites haven't been around that long. Clue: there are other methods to determine the historical freeze and thaw of ice-caps, but I suppose that doesn't matter to you.

So I guess the debunkers stance is that since we can't prove that man can impact the climate then we just don't need to worry about it or change our ways. Nevermind that alternative and planet friendly supplies of energy are a wise and good thing to strive for regardless of the health of the planet. Nevermind that we can spawn all sorts of new industries and improve the lives and livelihood of all living beings on this planet. Nevermind that no one has yet to put forth a good reason why we shouldn't all be working - right now - to improve these things. If you don't feel it then there ain't no issue. Got it.

Let me just leave it at this - I don't give a crap whether the climate change is man-made or not. It shouldn't have to take something so drastic or controversial to get people off their asses to make things better.

[daf62757]

Originally Posted by Altitude

Yeah it's a shame that we haven't been using satellite imagery to monitor the ice caps for hundreds of years now...oh wait...satellites haven't been around that long. Clue: there are other methods to determine the historical freeze and thaw of ice-caps, but I suppose that doesn't matter to you.

So I guess the debunkers stance is that since we can't prove that man can impact the climate then we just don't need to worry about it or change our ways. Nevermind that alternative and planet friendly supplies of energy are a wise and good thing to strive for regardless of the health of the planet. Nevermind that we can spawn all sorts of new industries and improve the lives and livelihood of all living beings on this planet. Nevermind that no one has yet to put forth a good reason why we shouldn't all be working - right now - to improve these things. If you don't feel it then there ain't no issue. Got it.

Let me just leave it at this - I don't give a crap whether the climate change is man-made or not. It shouldn't have to take something so drastic or controversial to get people off their asses to make things better.

I agree with most of what you said...except that some of these eco friendly things actually cause more damage. Using electric cars, by itself would be great, only the increase of coal to power the power plants would cause more damage than cars that use fossil fuel. Until we start building new nuclear plants, things like electric cars will cause more harm.

[roxy1]

Originally Posted by Altitude

So I guess the debunkers stance is that since we can't prove that man can impact the climate then we just don't need to worry about it or change our ways.

Let me just leave it at this - I don't give a crap whether the climate change is man-made or not. It shouldn't have to take something so drastic or controversial to get people off their asses to make things better.

of course there have been other ways to monitor the melting of the ice cap in the past. i only brought up al gore's obsession with the current method because he was exposed as having very little knowledge of the planetary history of polar ice cap melts as it relates to the last 30 years.

here is what i have already stated in previous posts:

"personally, i dont care which side of the argument anyone falll on. we need deperately to clean up our planet for a myriad of reasons. "

and...

"the sad thing is we never should have needed al gore and the like spreading misinformation to motivate the countries of the world to clean up our planet. there are enough other reasons to clean things up."

so, i am with you on that point of emphasis. count me as one who doesnt need one shred of evidence that there is human induced global warming to be motivated to clean up this earth. people should focus on all the reasons, lest they be disappointed if global warming continues nevertheless. there will still be many benefits to ourselves and our planet.