"Parmas" Motor

[Tamago]

wow that's cramped! turbo in back + front mount = a pain in the ass... parmas, would you consider doing a top mount intercooler? you'll get better throttle response, less pressure drop, and an overall cleaner engine bay. if an STI can make 350whp+ on a top mount, so can you!

[Parmas]

I have never considered a top mount intercooler since I never liked the design.

In my case if I decided to top mount the ic I am sure that all the heat of the engine and the turbo together will make the ic useless and in the worst case engine damage. I don't exactly care of space, I give priority to performance and efficiency...

[Tamago]

Originally Posted by Parmas

I have never considered a top mount intercooler since I never liked the design.

In my case if I decided to top mount the ic I am sure that all the heat of the engine and the turbo together will make the ic useless and in the worst case engine damage. I don't exactly care of space, I give priority to performance and efficiency...

so you're saying that WRC rally cars are useless? most rally cars use top mount intercoolers. subaru uses top mount

don't be a fanboi... front mounts are overrated.

[TheRealEnth]

Top mount FTW

[cali yaris]

don't be a fanboi... front mounts are overrated.

pluses and minuses for both, but I always enjoy a good pissing contest, so carry on.

[lilredrocket]

Haha.

[Tamago]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

pluses and minuses for both, but I always enjoy a good pissing contest, so carry on.

positives for top mount
1. less than half the piping
2. cleaner engine bay by simplifying piping and routing
3. puts that gnarly scooped hood to actual use
4. does not block radiator (engine runs cooler)
5. can be thicker than front mount because of Euro NCAP (more room under hood)
6. because of the shorter piping, you see less pressure drop and quicker throttle response
7. because it sits horizontally in the engine bay, it can be sprayed with water easily for quick cooling
8. not damaged by road debris

negatives for top mount
1. if improperly set up, will be less efficient at cooling than a front mount
2. it's not "cool" looking. many ricers equate turbos with front mounts, and if you don't have a front mount, you obviously aren't making any power (this really should be a POSITIVE THING not a negative thing lol)


Positives for front mount:
1. looks cool
2. can be generally longer than a top mount (however, short fat intercoolers are more efficient [less pressure drop] than long thin coolers

Negatives for front mount:

1. silly piping running all over the place (in the case of rear mounted turbos, which is what this is about.. in a longitudinal engine, i.e. supra, front mount is perfect because the exhaust is on the passsenger side and intake is on the driver.. obvious routing is obvious)
2. less efficient because of all the extra bends and charge piping bends. every time you go WOT the turbo has to fill the entire length of charge piping AND intercooler before you actually see boost. this can exascerbate turbo lag
3. attracts unwanted attention (law inforcement comes to mind)
4. susceptible to road debris
5. blocks radiator and AC condenser
6. safety may or may not be compromised (bumper beam hacked) to make the IC/piping fit


that's all i have folks.

[TheRealEnth]

tell it to em =D

[Parmas]

The only thing for me that comes to a disadvantage is turbo lag.. When I commited myself in this project I was ready to make sacrifices such as no AC and some fitment issues to the front (nothing big though).

In my case a top mount is not suitable mainly because of heat since it would be about few cm infront of the turbo exhaust plus it will be covered with excess heat emitted by the engine. If the turbo was on the rear lower side or at the lower front that would be a different story.

As in terms of space and organization of the engine bay, I see it more nice nd clean at the front which btw that is my opinion on my ride.

[cali yaris]

^ "attracts unwanted attention" and "susceptible to road debris"? LOL

[RacerFreakXXX]

I prefer a V mount intercooler, best of both worlds, rofl. Everything has its positives and negatives, imo you just have to find what setup works best for what you are using the car for. I don't know if that is even possible to put a V mount intercooler on the yaris seeing how short and stubby the front end is.

[Tamago]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

^ "attracts unwanted attention" and "susceptible to road debris"? LOL

hit a nice chunk of retread on the freeway and you won't LOL

[PETERPOOP]

Originally Posted by Tamago

positives for top mount
1. less than half the piping
2. cleaner engine bay by simplifying piping and routing
3. puts that gnarly scooped hood to actual use
4. does not block radiator (engine runs cooler)
5. can be thicker than front mount because of Euro NCAP (more room under hood)
6. because of the shorter piping, you see less pressure drop and quicker throttle response
7. because it sits horizontally in the engine bay, it can be sprayed with water easily for quick cooling
8. not damaged by road debris

negatives for top mount
1. if improperly set up, will be less efficient at cooling than a front mount
2. it's not "cool" looking. many ricers equate turbos with front mounts, and if you don't have a front mount, you obviously aren't making any power (this really should be a POSITIVE THING not a negative thing lol)


Positives for front mount:
1. looks cool
2. can be generally longer than a top mount (however, short fat intercoolers are more efficient [less pressure drop] than long thin coolers

Negatives for front mount:

1. silly piping running all over the place (in the case of rear mounted turbos, which is what this is about.. in a longitudinal engine, i.e. supra, front mount is perfect because the exhaust is on the passsenger side and intake is on the driver.. obvious routing is obvious)
2. less efficient because of all the extra bends and charge piping bends. every time you go WOT the turbo has to fill the entire length of charge piping AND intercooler before you actually see boost. this can exascerbate turbo lag
3. attracts unwanted attention (law inforcement comes to mind)
4. susceptible to road debris
5. blocks radiator and AC condenser
6. safety may or may not be compromised (bumper beam hacked) to make the IC/piping fit


that's all i have folks.

not bias at all, of course.

[Tamago]

Originally Posted by PETERPOOP

not bias at all, of course.

not at all..

let's see an intelligent bias in the other direction ;)

[rob323]

Don't you guys have access to barrel type water to air intercoolers over there? Best of both worlds.

[Tamago]

Originally Posted by rob323

Don't you guys have access to barrel type water to air intercoolers over there? Best of both worlds.

only if you have a cold water supply (ice chest) in your car.....

[rob323]

These have proven very effective on high power street cars over here.
Low pressure drop, great throttle response, minimal time required to re pressurise the intercooler tract.
http://www.horsepowerinabox.com/HPIAB2/category76_2.htm

[PHXDEMON]

Originally Posted by rob323

These have proven very effective on high power street cars over here.
Low pressure drop, great throttle response, minimal time required to re pressurise the intercooler tract.
http://www.horsepowerinabox.com/HPIAB2/category76_2.htm

only 1600 dollars. fuuuuuuck that