Good shallow-mount sub?

[DFA]

Well, apparently, no one wants to ship a sub over here for anything under 80+ bucks, which is an outrageous amount of cash I'd rather put towards paying for the amp that will be moving this sub.

talnlnky, those subs look sweet as hell, and if the circumstances allowed it, I'd be all over those babies in a heartbeat.

I guess at the moment, I'll have to decide between the Rockford and the Pioneer, which are the ones I know for certain are available locally. (I'm pretty sure I've also seen a shallow Kenwood around, but I haven't even researched that one online.) The Pioneer seems to have better frecuency response than the RF, is that a sole criteria to base my decision on?
I mainly listen to metal so I don't really have a craving for big fat booming bass. I understand the limitations of shallow subs on that area and, as I said, I just want something to give me more thump than a basslink, and is easier to stealth under the spare tire cover. I believe either sub will fill this role pretty nicely, but I'd still like to make an accurate shopping decision.

Found a guy willing to sell a P3SD412 for $150 already in a carpeted box, really tempting offer, considering other shops have it for ~$200+ unboxed. Guy works at a reputable shop and has won a crapload of car audio competitions, so I guess the sub should at least be in working condition.

Thanks for all the suggestions and feedback, but apparently living in the middle of nowhere has screwed me over once more.

[Alien Mantis]

The Basslink is weak.

Everything is a trade-off.
You can have awesome bass if you have lots of room for a big box, and lots of money to burn.
If you don't, then it all becomes a real challenge.
I was in the same situation you are in, trying to figure out what will get the job done with the least amount of money spent, or cargo space wasted.
NOT an easy task in the little Yaris.
The good news is, it doesn't take a big bass setup to get good bass in a Yaris.
The bad news is, the Yaris suffers from road noise.
( Which cancels bass waves )
This is why guys like Sqcomp spend so much time trying to kill the road noise, because it pays decibels back in the end.

Since you listen to metal, you should design for tight, flat, accurate bass.
Metal can sound like mud on a system with the wrong bass setup.
I know from experience.
Go sealed box. Those shallow subs don't put out alot of SPL because of the shorter stroke, ( short Xmax ), but they do sound tight in a small sealed enclosure.
They will add depth to the music, but don't expect a hard kick drum hit unless you want to run two or more.
Choose a shallow sub that has a decent power rating, and the most Xmax you can get.
Go with a 12" if you can fit it. The more air you move, the better the SPL.
The JBL 13" shallow sub is the best on the market, but you pay for it.
The Fosgate shallow P3 has a decent Xmax and power rating.
I might seriously look into one of those.
The Kenwood eXcelon shallow subs get good customer ratings. You might want to check out one of those as well, for comparison.
MTX makes a nice shallow sub too.
Push it to the rated RMS power. If it says 400watts RMS, give it 400watts RMS.
The new Alpine Type-R shallow sub is supposed to be awesome, but they are not on the market yet.
Just be warned, if you choose to go with a single shallow 10" sub with a short Xmax, you will probably be disappointed with the SPL.
It's all a trade-off.

I would look for a 12" shallow, with an Xmax of 10mm-14mm, and around 300-500watts RMS.
( preferably the larger of those numbers )

[Alien Mantis]

Originally Posted by DFA

Found a guy willing to sell a P3SD412 for $150 already in a carpeted box, really tempting offer, considering other shops have it for ~$200+ unboxed.

I would avoid buying a used one.

You never really know how hard it was abused, or if the voice coil has been warped due to misuse.

Also, speakers deteriorate in the outside environment.
I seen suspensions that crumble just by touching them.

Buy new, and don't look back.

[talnlnky]

Originally Posted by Alien Mantis

I would avoid buying a used one.

You never really know how hard it was abused, or if the voice coil has been warped due to misuse.

Also, speakers deteriorate in the outside environment.
I seen suspensions that crumble just by touching them.

Buy new, and don't look back.

as long as the sub was made in the past ten... or even 20 years... the surround or spider should not "crumble"... Sure... a 40+ year old speaker made in the 70's or before is likely to do that, but materials have changed since then.

[Alien Mantis]

Originally Posted by talnlnky

as long as the sub was made in the past ten... or even 20 years... the surround or spider should not "crumble"... Sure... a 40+ year old speaker made in the 70's or before is likely to do that, but materials have changed since then.

I was referring to a pair of Earthquake subs that were made back in the mid 90's. The surrounds were shot on both of them. No doubt, mostly from the heat. We have hot summers out here, and it gets really hot inside a vehicle.

Most people buy subs to play them HARD.
Nobody puts subs and amps in their vehicle to play their music at 80db's.
We like to crank it up and rattle the windows!

A top quality sub, in the correct enclosure, with the correct amount of power pushing it, with a properly adjusted amp gain setting and a clean signal, can certainly live happily for a long time. And buying one of these "used" would not be a problem.

But how many times have we seen people violate the "code of car audio ethics" ?
Can I have any faith in how this "used" sub has been treated over it's period of service?

I say NO.
My money is on a new one, and let ME be the first person to enjoy the new sounds coming from a fresh speaker!

[talnlnky]

Originally Posted by Alien Mantis

I was referring to a pair of Earthquake subs that were made back in the mid 90's. The surrounds were shot on both of them. No doubt, mostly from the heat. We have hot summers out here, and it gets really hot inside a vehicle.

Most people buy subs to play them HARD.
Nobody puts subs and amps in their vehicle to play their music at 80db's.
We like to crank it up and rattle the windows!

A top quality sub, in the correct enclosure, with the correct amount of power pushing it, with a properly adjusted amp gain setting and a clean signal, can certainly live happily for a long time. And buying one of these "used" would not be a problem.

But how many times have we seen people violate the "code of car audio ethics" ?
Can I have any faith in how this "used" sub has been treated over it's period of service?

I say NO.
My money is on a new one, and let ME be the first person to enjoy the new sounds coming from a fresh speaker!

buy used online from people who frequent the same car audio forums as yourself... if you recognize them, and they are contributing regulars to the forum... then most likely you'll be good to go.

If you buy used in person... bring a DMM, check the DCR of the coil(s) to make sure it's not all funky, DCR will always be around 15% below the Nominal value (4ohm will often become 3.6 ohm, maybe a bit lower)
You can also push slowly on the cone to feel the stroke of the sub, do you hear any crunching, or nonlinear resistance that might be evidenced of a voice coil unwrapping. It also allows you to check the spider, to see if the spider is torn. Also check the Tinsel leads to make sure they don't look worn. A worn tinsel lead is a huge indicator of an abused sub (due to mechanical limits being pushed).

I've bought used speakers, and don't recommend it to everyone, but do recommend it to people looking to cut costs down, especially with high end subs. Sometimes you can buy a blown high end sub for under $200, and then have it repaired... end up paying less than $300 and get yourself a $500+ value sub which has brand new moving parts, and is basically BRAND NEW, minus the scratches you see. Gotta be careful though, its mainly only the subs that have cast aluminum baskets, and cost more than $200 that can be reconed.