Debunking fuel conservation myths...

[daf62757]

Originally Posted by PhotoDu.de

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/833483.stm
http://people.su.se/~totto/downloadable_publications/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol...ages_in_Sweden

Try proper punctuation and grammar next time. It will make you look like somebody with an intelligent thought and not like a high school girl sending a text message.

Also, you have full right to do those things, you just need to pay for the cost of the negative side effects of those things. Seems only fair.

Should liberals have to pay for all the damage they are doing to our individual rights? Seems to me that is where the more serious damage is occurring.

[Astroman]

Originally Posted by daf62757

Should liberals have to pay for all the damage they are doing to our individual rights? Seems to me that is where the more serious damage is occurring.

Bush was the one who suspended habeas corpus, remember? Try watching something other than fox news, it may surprise you.

[Henry G.]

Electric cars use batteries. Toxic batteries that are toxic to make, and toxic to recycle. And the power comes from.....?
Electric plants that burn coal, natural gas, fuel oil, peakers that burn jet fuel, tell me is that cleaner than Ultra Low Emission Vehicles? NO. And the losses to transmit and distribute that electricity, the heat given off charging the batteries....?
Electric vehicles are an enviornmental joke until they charge from solar or wind sources.....I'll keep my sporty litttle 105 hp roller skate car, I just pray I dont get into an accident or I know I'm dead.

[mryaris]

Originally Posted by Henry G.

I just pray I dont get into an accident or I know I'm dead.

Why would you say this? The Yaris is a pretty safe little car. Obviously if you get hit by an 18-wheeler you're screwed,but that would be true in almost any other car on the road as well. I effectively hit a guard rail head on at 50MPH (fishtailed on black ice) and then rolled it over onto it's side and walked away without a scratch. The car also held up very well.....no intrusions into the cabin, etc.



**sorry for the hijack!!**

[fmicle]

Originally Posted by Henry G.

Electric cars use batteries. Toxic batteries that are toxic to make, and toxic to recycle. And the power comes from.....?
Electric plants that burn coal, natural gas, fuel oil, peakers that burn jet fuel, tell me is that cleaner than Ultra Low Emission Vehicles? NO. And the losses to transmit and distribute that electricity, the heat given off charging the batteries....?
Electric vehicles are an enviornmental joke until they charge from solar or wind sources.....I'll keep my sporty litttle 105 hp roller skate car, I just pray I dont get into an accident or I know I'm dead.

Think about this for bit, at night, when America is sleeping, what do power plants do? Do they shut down? No, you can't shut down a power plant for a few hours, just because there is no demand. Technically, it's not feasible. You can turn down the output a bit, but that's about it. So lots and lots of electricity is... wasted! Simply wasted. Why not use that to recharge your "toxic" batteries? There is no extra pollution generated.

And also, there is something called "economies of scale", sometimes it's more efficient to produce something on a large scale, it becomes more efficient and cheaper, plus at least you can control where the pollution happens, if you can't eliminate it altogether.

So I'm not convinced by your argument. I'd totally get a Tesla Roadster if it didn't cost $100k

[Henry G.]

Originally Posted by fmicle

Think about this for bit, at night, when America is sleeping, what do power plants do? Do they shut down? No, you can't shut down a power plant for a few hours, just because there is no demand. Technically, it's not feasible. You can turn down the output a bit, but that's about it. So lots and lots of electricity is... wasted! Simply wasted. Why not use that to recharge your "toxic" batteries? There is no extra pollution generated.

And also, there is something called "economies of scale", sometimes it's more efficient to produce something on a large scale, it becomes more efficient and cheaper, plus at least you can control where the pollution happens, if you can't eliminate it altogether.

So I'm not convinced by your argument. I'd totally get a Tesla Roadster if it didn't cost $100k

Sorry you are wrong. I forgot to mention I run a piece of the electric grid as my job as a Transmission System Operator. Power plants DO come offline at night, not all of them of course. AGC Automatic Generation Control runs that ones that stay online, to match load with generation, EXACTLY, the less load, the less generation, the less fuel used. There is no free lunch with electricity, the power is not " getting wasted" at night, although I think some members of this forum are!
Now do some research. Fuel is needed to run the car. Either at the generation station or in your fuel tank. Which makes less pollution?. The cars of course.

[fmicle]

Originally Posted by Henry G.

Sorry you are wrong. I forgot to mention I run a piece of the electric grid as my job as a Transmission System Operator. Power plants DO come offline at night, not all of them of course. AGC Automatic Generation Control runs that ones that stay online, to match load with generation, EXACTLY, the less load, the less generation, the less fuel used. There is no free lunch with electricity, the power is not " getting wasted" at night, although I think some members of this forum are!
Now do some research. Fuel is needed to run the car. Either at the generation station or in your fuel tank. Which makes less pollution?. The cars of course.

Alright Sir, you got my attention. So what's the average efficiency of a typical power plant? I would think that a coal burning power plant would make more pollution than all the individual cars combined to produce the same amount of power, but how about the other types of power plants? Are they still that bad in comparison?

[daf62757]

Originally Posted by Astroman

Bush was the one who suspended habeas corpus, remember? Try watching something other than fox news, it may surprise you.

I would suggest you try listening to more than the liberal news....the truth might surprise you!

[jambo101]

Originally Posted by daf62757

I would suggest you try listening to more than the liberal news....the truth might surprise you!

My favorite news outlet is MSNBC definitely Liberal but very credible hosts.
I usually listen to Limbaugh on the radio and he sounds like a total whacko who's on drugs ,great for lunch time laughs,Glenn Beck and his recent God complex is also some one drinking the Koolaid,good for entertainment only.
There is precious little truth to be had over on Fox.
Their probable take on the Yaris? let me guess = crappy little Jap econo box that only commie socialist enviro nazi's would consider driving.

[daf62757]

Originally Posted by jambo101

My favorite news outlet is MSNBC definitely Liberal but very credible hosts.
I usually listen to Limbaugh on the radio and he sounds like a total whacko who's on drugs ,great for lunch time laughs,Glenn Beck and his recent God complex is also some one drinking the Koolaid,good for entertainment only.
There is precious little truth to be had over on Fox.
Their probable take on the Yaris? let me guess = crappy little Jap econo box that only commie socialist enviro nazi's would consider driving.

Anyone who makes such outrageous comments.....is probably not too bright or so blinded by his ideology that he wouldn't recognize what the truth is if it hit him in the face.

Sounds like you got him with both barrels!

[fmicle]

Originally Posted by daf62757

Should liberals have to pay for all the damage they are doing to our individual rights? Seems to me that is where the more serious damage is occurring.

I am not a big fan of liberals, but if you do just a little bit of homework, just a bit, not too much, so your brain doesn't overheat or something, you'll see that most of our rights that we enjoy today were fought for by liberals...

[PhotoDu.de]

Originally Posted by fmicle

I am not a big fan of liberals, but if you do just a little bit of homework, just a bit, not too much, so your brain doesn't overheat or something, you'll see that most of our rights that we enjoy today were fought for by liberals...

Lumping politics into either "conservative" or "liberal" is way too narrow. "Conservatives" don't agree on all policies and visa versa. These terms are only used to be divisive and dumb down the arguments to the level of a sports rivalry; you are either for one team or the other. This division makes it easier to dismiss the other side's argument without actually examining it.
Political discourse in the United States is mindless.