Debunking fuel conservation myths...

[mryaris]

Originally Posted by fmicle

Maybe you should actually read what I wrote and not just scan the keywords. I never said anything about government "dictating" your habits. I said that government can and should encourage proper behavior. It's common sense. Something you should try exercising as well sometimes.

I believe he was paraphrasing. You advocate government intervention into the private lives of its citizens to "encourage good healthy habits and discourage destructive behavior, even though it is legal and allowed", but then say that you never said anything about having the government dictate your habits. What's the difference between dictating and "encouraging" through policy?

If you want to drown in booze and sniff marijuana, go ahead and be my guest, but when you get cancer, or otherwise end up in the hospital, don't ask me to pay for it. Usually, those who do push these bad habits to the extreme, more often than not, do not have insurance and us taxpayers end up footing the bill. How messed up is that?

I'm guessing you voted Democrat and are all for the "public option" in regards to universal health coverage.....if I'm wrong about that then I apologize. That said, what's the difference if you, as a taxpayer, pay for someone's cancer treatment because he has no health insurance or because you are forced to through public policy? Meaning, if I am forced to pay for health coverage and I never use it then I am effectively paying for someone else's treatments. I have been to the doctor twice in the past 20 years and rarely get sick (maybe get a cold once every year or two) so I do not have nor need health insurance and do not want it forced upon me.

It does become a moral issue when people die so that you can keep driving your 15 mpg truck. And I'm not saying you should not be allowed to do it. All I'm saying is that you should be paying a little more than those who drive 30 mpg cars. Just like flying 1st class, you know? Common sense.

How does driving a 15 MPG vehicle kill anyone moreso than someone in a 30 MPG car? Are you saying that because it gets less miles per gallon that the truck pollutes more and therefore that extra pollution somehow will kill someone faster than if we all drove 30 MPG cars? That's a stretch. What if the guy in the 15 MPG truck drives 30 miles a day and the 30 MPG guy drives 90 miles per day? Who pollutes more?

Also, people who drive 15 MPG trucks *do* pay more than the guy driving a 30 MPG car......they pay for it at the pump and if they are OK with spending twice as much to go half as far then that's their prerogative.

You also mention how great Sweden is as well as the UK & Canada . Did you know that Sweden is the largest welfare state? Income tax rates top out at nearly 60% to pay for all the social programs there. That's for people making anything more than $75,000 US.....can you imagine paying 59.17% tax on $75000? Your take home pay would be $30,600. I take home more than that and I make just under $50K a year!

That's the max. example though.....here's the breakdown (numbers are approximate and include all municipal & national taxes):

$0-$52,000 (US) has a minimum tax rate of 28.89% and a max of 34.17%

$52,000-$74,000 has a minimum tax rate of 48.89% and a max of 54.17%

$74,000 and up has a minimum tax rate of 53.89% and a maximum of 59.17%


By comparison, right now in the US the top tier earners (those making more than $373,650 pay 35% federal tax (plus whatever your state income tax rate is)....the effective rate for both combined are generally less than 45%. This is for high income earners and depends on where you live and what you make.

Here are the websites I got my info from:

http://www.taxrates.cc/html/sweden-tax-rates.html
http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm
http://www.xe.com/ucc/


Probably more info than anyone wanted....oh well. The point is, countries like Sweden aren't some sort of ideal that we should be striving towards. If it works for them great. Have at it, but that is not what this country is all about. I don't want or need anyone telling me how to live my life. I can take care of myself thank-you very much. If anyone feels otherwise it isn't all that hard to renounce your citizenship and move to Skandinavia. I hope you like lutefisk! Yum!

That was probably the longest post I've ever made on any forum I belong to.....sorry. I just fail to grasp how anyone feels it is their duty to tell someone else what they should or should not do with their life. The beauty of living in the United States is that you have freedom of choice. If you choose to drive a 15MPG gas guzzler you can. I choose to drive a Yaris and a 50-year old British car.....it's my choice and if I later choose to drive something else I can and will.

[PhotoDu.de]

Originally Posted by mryaris

What's the difference between dictating and "encouraging" through policy?

Dictating would be to make it illegal to do.

Originally Posted by mryaris

That said, what's the difference if you, as a taxpayer, pay for someone's cancer treatment because he has no health insurance or because you are forced to through public policy? Meaning, if I am forced to pay for health coverage and I never use it then I am effectively paying for someone else's treatments. I have been to the doctor twice in the past 20 years and rarely get sick (maybe get a cold once every year or two) so I do not have nor need health insurance and do not want it forced upon me.

Because thought a public option you pay for the cheaper preventative health care instead of the more expensive emergency care.
Also, you are going to need healthcare at some point. You will be old someday.

Originally Posted by mryaris

.they pay for it at the pump and if they are OK with spending twice as much to go half as far then that's their prerogative.

Right, which is why you tax the gas and not the car.

Originally Posted by mryaris

Did you know that Sweden is the largest welfare state? Income tax rates top out at nearly 60% to pay for all the social programs there.

Yes, and because of their social programs they have a higher standard of living than in the USA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index
Yes they don't bring home more money, but since society takes care of so much they spend less on curtain things and effectively have more money for other things.

Originally Posted by mryaris

the point is, countries like Sweden aren't some sort of ideal that we should be striving towards. If it works for them great. Have at it, but that is not what this country is all about. I don't want or need anyone telling me how to live my life. I can take care of myself thank-you very much.

Countries like Sweden are an ideal because their government works great for them.
This country isn't about well ran government?
The Swedes aren't told how to live their lives.
Yes you do take care of yourself, except when you are on a road, or use water, or your house is burning down, or need the police, or the countless other things you need to rely on the government for.
Social services and appropriate tax structures enhance civil liberties, they do not limit them.

Originally Posted by mryaris

If anyone feels otherwise it isn't all that hard to renounce your citizenship and move to Skandinavia.

Yes it is. I don't know any nordic language nor any company that would sponsor my citizenship. That, and I'd prefer Canada.
It would just be a lot easier to change the laws here.

[fmicle]

Originally Posted by mryaris

I believe he was paraphrasing. You advocate government intervention into the private lives of its citizens to "encourage good healthy habits and discourage destructive behavior, even though it is legal and allowed", but then say that you never said anything about having the government dictate your habits. What's the difference between dictating and "encouraging" through policy?

Ah, come on, the difference is simple; it's "you should" instead of "you must". Just like tax write-offs for instance, the government encourages people to buy homes, by allowing them to write off the interest they pay on the loan. Right? Encouragement through policy. I never heard anyone complaining that the government is forcing them to buy a house

Originally Posted by mryaris

I have been to the doctor twice in the past 20 years and rarely get sick (maybe get a cold once every year or two) so I do not have nor need health insurance and do not want it forced upon me.

I have never had a car accident in 15 years, why is car insurance forced upon me??? I haven't heard anyone complain about the mandatory liability insurance, why are they complaining about health insurance?

The problem with your thinking is, that if you end up in the ER, they will save you first and then ask for insurance; they won't let you die...

Originally Posted by mryaris

How does driving a 15 MPG vehicle kill anyone moreso than someone in a 30 MPG car?

It's not about pollution, it's about politics and wars. The Arabs hate us because we're in Saudi Arabia and everyone knows WHY we are in Saudi Arabia.