Yaris Sedan Deadening and Sound system upgrade

[derickveliz2]

CAPS ARE MINE

Originally Posted by sqcomp

mmm...I'll agree with PLDs. I SHOULD HAVE LISTEN TO YOU WHEN YOU SUGGESTED ME TO TRY MY MIDS IN THE KICK AREA!

Let me get this straight, you're not using the midrange anymore? Tweeter and midbass? CORRECT!

I've got some alternate aiming on the A-pillars with some tweeter action in different areas (not in the kick). We'll compare notes. I wish we could listen to each other's setups. ME TOO! ANY PRISONS OR JAILS IN YOUR AREA? Too far away...

Can you imagine what kind of trouble we could get in if we lived closer? I KNOW, IKNOW Man!

I suppose the other thing with mine is that I'm going for a two seat tune at some time in the future. We're both operating very different setups... NOW I UNDERSTAND THAT, MINE IS PILOT'S SIDE ONLY JEJE, VERY SELFISH

...Instead of muting your mid channel on the deck, just get into the initial setup and change it to a two way instead of a three way setup... I GUESS I COULD DO THAT, BUT SINCE I WANT TO PUT MY 3 WAY TOGETHER AGAIN, BUT NOW THE MIDS WILL GO IN THE A-FRAME

[sqcomp]

There are several prisons in the state...They're always hiring. We have better weather than the East coast. Less snow, much less humidity, and less bugs!

[derickveliz2]

Originally Posted by _S7V7N_

Everything is looking Great D. Just stopping by to say " whuddupp". Sq what's been good man, when you gonna make a trip down to TX. I moved down here at the end of July and am having a Blast, they have quite a few shows coming up .


Yo SQ have you guys ran into any of these yet at the shop ? Crunch CRBT-4 I'm thinking bout grabbing me a pair just to play around with.

Thanks S7, that tweeter looks good for a home system, how big is it?

D.

[derickveliz2]

D.

[derickveliz2]

Ok, here are the first 100 miles of the I6SW...

(note that I all ready changed my signature, bye bye IDQ12)


I have to be honest here... I was very exited this morning when I jumped in my car, and got my self going... the fist 10 miles... mmm, "Maybe I should use 2 I6SW" I was a little dissapointed maybe even more because I remember thinking "I'm moving back the IDQ up front"

Well heading to my destination after 40 miles or so... I forgot I was testing the I6SW, and "What? this sounds good, feels like that little woofer it's growing" no kidding started to come alive! well sort of.

By the time I was almost back home after 80 miles or so, I just couldn't believe it! I don't want to write here that "Hits Hard" it doesn't I'm sure I'm not going to wake up my neighbors, but the BASS up front is great! my chest, my arms, my shoulders are witness of this wonderful effect!

When I got home with a big smile on my face, I can tell you... this is not a LOUD woofer, it doesn't shake the car like crazy, but man does plays "JUST RIGHT", This is what I wanted, some thing really cool, that sounds great, makes my music feel "BOLD" and at least to me a sweet spot for Sound Quality. And the fact that now I feel the BASS coming from the front, hitting my chest! vrs the BASS Shaking my seat and that rumble coming from the back. I really love having the BASS up front! You can tell I'm happy!

Ok ok,... too many good things about it, so here we go it's not a little monster, that likes to play at super high volumes (I don't really listen music at super high volumes any whay) it's more sensitive to changes than the IDQ12, and it sounds really good with some music but I didn't like it when playing rap music, it just didn't feel right, maybe after a break in period I could give more details. I remember the same feelings when I installed my IDQ12, at the beginning was so-so, but after a while turned into a really good woofer.

Now I have three 10" Kicker Solo Baric woofers, one 10" Bazooka tube, one IDQ12; all these sound great, I was impressed with the Bazooka, and the power handling of the Solo Baric, and the IDQ12 has a special place in my heart, but nothing compares to the feeling having the BASS up front where everything else is happening.

For now the first two and a half hours took me from in-satisfaction to a "wow this sounds great, not bad for a 6.5" woofer"

D.

[dawin2122]

SALUDOS DERICK TIENES FACEBOOK O MESSENGER QUIERO PREGUNTARTE ALGO GRACIAS

[derickveliz2]

Originally Posted by dawin2122

SALUDOS DERICK TIENES FACEBOOK O MESSENGER QUIERO PREGUNTARTE ALGO GRACIAS

Si claro...

Derick R Veliz-Montufar (Face Book)

D.

[dawin2122]

PERDONA DERICK PERO NO TE ENCUENTRO PUEDES ENVIARME UNA SOLICITUD TU MY NONBRE
DAVID VELAZQUES FIGUEROA

[dawin2122]

DAVID VELAZQUEZ FIGUEROA

CON DOS Z EN VELAZQUEZ

[sqcomp]

Yeah, that's what I was trying to get at in the beginning. It's a 6.5" woofer in a "simple" ported enclosure.

At no time should one expect this woofer to replace the IDQ 12". It just doesn't have the cone area or excursion to do so.

BUT, for what you're using it for, an up front bass presence, this is a spectacular idea and execution Derick. Give us more on your conclusions.

[TOLMACH]

Derick, is your sub ported already? Are you using the port or still no hole as on the picture?

[derickveliz2]

Originally Posted by TOLMACH

Derick, is your sub ported already? Are you using the port or still no hole as on the picture?

Wide open to the front!

D.

[derickveliz2]

Originally Posted by sqcomp

At no time should one expect this woofer to replace the IDQ 12". It just doesn't have the cone area or excursion to do so.

BUT, for what you're using it for, an up front bass presence, this is a spectacular idea and execution Derick. Give us more on your conclusions.

I'm realistic the IDQ12 is awesome, but it doesn't fit in a small box.
The I6SW sounds good, well not as good as the IDQ12

I6SW @ 200 miles, still a baby and making progress.

D.

[TOLMACH]

Originally Posted by derickveliz2

Ok, here are the first 100 miles of the I6SW...

(note that I all ready changed my signature, bye bye IDQ12)


I have to be honest here... I was very exited this morning when I jumped in my car, and got my self going... the fist 10 miles... mmm, "Maybe I should use 2 I6SW" I was a little dissapointed maybe even more because I remember thinking "I'm moving back the IDQ up front"

Well heading to my destination after 40 miles or so... I forgot I was testing the I6SW, and "What? this sounds good, feels like that little woofer it's growing" no kidding started to come alive! well sort of.

By the time I was almost back home after 80 miles or so, I just couldn't believe it! I don't want to write here that "Hits Hard" it doesn't I'm sure I'm not going to wake up my neighbors, but the BASS up front is great! my chest, my arms, my shoulders are witness of this wonderful effect!

When I got home with a big smile on my face, I can tell you... this is not a LOUD woofer, it doesn't shake the car like crazy, but man does plays "JUST RIGHT", This is what I wanted, some thing really cool, that sounds great, makes my music feel "BOLD" and at least to me a sweet spot for Sound Quality. And the fact that now I feel the BASS coming from the front, hitting my chest! vrs the BASS Shaking my seat and that rumble coming from the back. I really love having the BASS up front! You can tell I'm happy!

Ok ok,... too many good things about it, so here we go it's not a little monster, that likes to play at super high volumes (I don't really listen music at super high volumes any whay) it's more sensitive to changes than the IDQ12, and it sounds really good with some music but I didn't like it when playing rap music, it just didn't feel right, maybe after a break in period I could give more details. I remember the same feelings when I installed my IDQ12, at the beginning was so-so, but after a while turned into a really good woofer.

Now I have three 10" Kicker Solo Baric woofers, one 10" Bazooka tube, one IDQ12; all these sound great, I was impressed with the Bazooka, and the power handling of the Solo Baric, and the IDQ12 has a special place in my heart, but nothing compares to the feeling having the BASS up front where everything else is happening.

For now the first two and a half hours took me from in-satisfaction to a "wow this sounds great, not bad for a 6.5" woofer"

D.

I think your 6.5 Inch sub in ported box should me more than enough for SQ.. that being said, I now have a cheap "entry level" 12 inch sub in my trunk which is powered by bridged pair of channels of 4 channel amp (the other pair powering the 3way front speakers) .. this is of course, temporary as I have a designated amp for my sub which will be installed shorlty. Still, my sub being powered by an innappropriate amp, does sound pretty nice - the bass is both fast enough for my midwoofers (does not lag behind) and deep enough.. all in all, I can pretty surely say that bass is not localized in the trunk - nice and tight bass as it should be.. Btw, my sub is crossed at 70Hz 2nd order which is too high (can not adjust lower as my present amp does not have the built in crossovers .. have ot use this stuff http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=266-252) .. I normally cross my subs in the range 50-60 hz.. and bass still does not localize in the trunk

I also told you before, that I really like free-air subs in sedans (in rear decks) - couple 10 inchers would both result in decent pressure level and be amazing in terms of SQ: very fast and quality bass

Anyways, congrats with your sub project, also looks nice!

[TOLMACH]

Originally Posted by derickveliz2

OK, here we go, sit down and check it out! I have 2 updates:


The most important, isn't the little subwoofer, it's about front stage and that my MIDS are gone for now! YES that's what you read... I did disconnect my mids (so good by to all the work on the a-pillars), and this is why:

(I wrote this a few weeks ago, but didn't wanted to post until now)...

Now I understand how to achieve good front stage, image, depth for a great SQ system. (at least to a degree level of my knowledge)

After trying every position and aiming possible ending up with my mids at the a-pillars tuned and every thing... sounds amazing in every way, but I learn many other facts... and how to improve it.

My HU let's me switch back and forth from a 2 way to a 3 way in a few seconds, (Mute the mids change x-over points for mid/bass and tweeters at the same time) incredible I can make my 2 way sound better without the MIDS and depending on the song sometimes I can't tell the difference, and this is with just a flip of a switch. My conclusion is that PLD's play a huge roll for SQ, Time Alignment it's a must in junction with EQ.

Me going from 3 way to 2 way:

1 "MUTE" mids
2 tweeters go down from 8kHz to 6.3kHz (HPF)
3 Lows go up from 1.6Hz to 6.3kHz (LPF)

In some songs I can tell the 3 way is crisper and the stage is up a little bit but I can tell... a little harsh with high frequencies (must be the reflections from the windshield) but.... a narrower stage! and a less focused center image (2 different drivers trying to accomplish a good image gave me a muddy center image), so I start wondering why? and I knew that...

PLD's plays a big factor even if it's just inches: my mids and lows (in doors) have the same PLDs that is one of the reasons when I go from 3 way to 2 way I barely feel a difference or improvement from one to the other.

Also check that when I have the MIDs playing in the a-pillars the distance between components is shorter, so in my 3 way configuration with mids in the A-pillars my stage is "SMALLER-NARROWER, NOT AS WIDE"

Also to compensate for that smaller stage the x-over point goes up (in my case to 1.6kHz) this defeats all the performance of a good mid with the ability to play low around 200Hz, almost any cheap speaker can do from 1.6 to 6.3/8kHz where the tweeter picks up, this brings my Lows (6.5" drivers in doors) to go from 63Hz up to 1.6kHz so my stage grows up but my TA starts to struggle, remember that TA doesn't really mater after 2kHz and I loose my point source! by having to divide the frequencies from 200Hz to around 6kHz to aloud point source.

So in my case, I don't have space to move my 6.5" drivers to the kick area, but I can use my 3" MID as a point of source into the A-frame, this will make my stage wider and deeper away from me (that's what you want in SQ), why?... PLD's are more efficient when placing a point source (MID) as far forward possible! so in the near future that's what it's going to be, my MIDs will go in the kick area.

As of today, I've been driving and playing with my set up, for more than 5K miles, learning and experimenting, most of the time (90%) playing my music with the MIDs in "MUTE" position, just because sounds better, I can improve my set up by re-installing my MIDs in the kick area.

And I know in Music and SQ/car it's all relative to the listener, What I write here is my personal opinion from many hours of playing around, reading and experimenting, but you've seen my install, from spheres to a-pillars, and I enjoy sharing with you my thoughts, I'm open to any opinion, I'm learning this stuff and believe me I enjoy every tiny bit of this install, trail and error got me where I'm today!


Now with the I6SW:
This one is not going to "MUTE" no way, I finish the enclosure so I could try and play with it, (so it's not completely finished)
It's late so I didn't crank it up, I did have to move some settings in my HU like time alignment and bump up the db a little bit, even with a new woofer and at low volume hits very nice, goes low and merges very well with the LOWS, so let me play with it for 20-30 hours (break in period) and will update about it, so far at low volume sounds very positive, we'll see with more watts, volume, road noise, etc... how responds! (just for the record I have a big smile on my face )



I was at my sisters place and I did not resist to take a picture [with my cell phone!]



D.

Interesting results you have.. Normally people never go back to 2 ways system after playing with 3 way ones.

I usually do not care a lot about the sound stage and imaging, as IMO both these concepts are overly exegerrated in car audio.. (have some experiance with EMMA competitions) .. I am more concerned with getting proper tonal accuracy and spectral balance.. again.. that said, somehow (quite unexpectedly) I have gotten quite a nice stage im my yaris.. if I close my eyes, sound stage seems something like 10 or 12 inches wider that my A-pillars..

we both understand what midranges play a huge role in staging.. and yours are looking more towards each other while mine are somewhat more pointed towards the front listeners.. I was kinda suspecting you'd get a much better stage..

again.. these are just my thoughts

pls, keep us informed about your next experiments

[derickveliz2]

Originally Posted by TOLMACH

Interesting results you have.. Normally people never go back to 2 ways system after playing with 3 way ones.

I usually do not care a lot about the sound stage and imaging, as IMO both these concepts are overly exegerrated in car audio.. (have some experiance with EMMA competitions) .. I am more concerned with getting proper tonal accuracy and spectral balance.. again.. that said, somehow (quite unexpectedly) I have gotten quite a nice stage im my yaris.. if I close my eyes, sound stage seems something like 10 or 12 inches wider that my A-pillars..

we both understand what midranges play a huge role in staging.. and yours are looking more towards each other while mine are somewhat more pointed towards the front listeners.. I was kinda suspecting you'd get a much better stage..

again.. these are just my thoughts

pls, keep us informed about your next experiments

Thanks TOLMACH, the little 6.5 woofer makes a great SQ system, I should called "A personal SQ experience". Will keep you up to date!

2 or 3 way:
I'm not going with a 2 way, I'm going to end up with a 3way!, because of the physical proportions, geometry and cabin construction I'm going to use a 3 way, what I was saying is that because my Mids (in a-pillars) are at the same distance to my ears (PLDs) than my Lows in the OEM door location. What makes the 2 way sound wider because the Lows in doors are farther apart from each other, compare to the Mids in the a-pillars.

But to improve my system, I can move my Mids to the a-frame, farther distance I can get from my ears, this way my PLDs will be shorter by doing this I will get most of my 3 way system, better than what I have now.

I agree with proper tonal accuracy and spectral balance, but first I need to get physically everything in the right place.

I had my Mids at some point looking at the listeners (if you look back in this thread, or see photos below) and yes the stages seems wider, open a window and it's gone, I got the conclusion that the reflexion of the side windows was helping to wide the stage, but also was screwing my image by creating a "V" shape, for example when I play the 7 drum track (see image below). That is why I change my Mids to the a-pillar, Sqcomp advice me about putting in the a-frame, I should have listened to him! further and far apart is better.

[sqcomp]

Crap! That is definately not what we want. Tonal accuracy and balance are parts of the overall picture. If your stage is that skewed then it doesn't present a proper audio picture. Does the band really move from a centrally located stage? No.

Tolm,

Let's see your setup with the 12" wide than the pillar stage...

[TOLMACH]

Originally Posted by sqcomp

Crap! That is definately not what we want. Tonal accuracy and balance are parts of the overall picture. If your stage is that skewed then it doesn't present a proper audio picture. Does the band really move from a centrally located stage? No.

Tolm,

Let's see your setup with the 12" wide than the pillar stage...

Sorry, did not understand .. what do you mean by "12 inch wider than the pillar stage"?

IDeally, you should not be able to locate your subwoofer at all.. just have the bass which is usually hard to achieve, especially in sedans with subs in the trunk.. the task is a bit easier in HBs beause of lack of the rear deck