For the price of a Prius...

[why?]

Originally Posted by Billiam

It's the same way with Yaris owners around here. Things are said that make one feel better about what they bought. You'll find that on any auto forum.

Sort of what I meant. I do agree there is nothing wrong with it. It does seem though some have a preoccupation with the Yaris.

Originally Posted by nookandcrannycar

LOL! I don't like the Prius either. It is too big and (given its cost) should be a more inspiring drive in many ways, one being IT SHOULD BE AVAILABLE WITH A MANUAL TRANSMISSION (I know...the CVT = best MPG for most people and supposedly compliments this incantation of the engine best). Even given all of this, THE WORST THING ABOUT THE PRIUS IN MY MIND IS THE FEELING I GET WHILE SITTING IN ONE. Car and Driver referred to the first US produced VW Rabbits as 'THE MALIBUIZATION OF VOLKSWAGEN'. They weren't referring to Malibu, California directly, they were referring to what had happened to the Chevrolet Malibu.....how it has become generic, numbing, stark, and devoid of sufficient design personality, respect, common sense, etc........not being a driver's car. However possibly illogical, this is what I think of when sitting in a Prius. I also feel that coming out with a PRIUS 'WAGON' shows that people who feel as I do aren't targets for these cars.

I disagree. The Malibu was a totally ugly and indistinguishable car. The Prius is unique and easy to pick out in a crowd. And the Prius is not aimed at people who like to drive, it is aimed at people who want to get good gas mileage, and unfortunately has been adopted by the eco crowd.

Originally Posted by nookandcrannycar

Perhaps most of the Prius owners in PA are women (or emasculated men?), but this isn't really the vibe in the SF Bay Area...where many people feel as though people (female and many male buyers) are making an intentionally politically correct statement (and an intentionally smug one) buy buying a Prius...and many buyers (one can tell by querying them) know next to nothing about the car.

Probably true. Most people I've talked to buy it for the political statement, or for the unfortunate and incorrect hatred of the oil companies.

Originally Posted by nookandcrannycar

Why? I usually agree with you,

Ok, give me a minute to get over the shock of that. Oh wait, you live in Texas. I so need to move there. Seems like a really good place to be.

Originally Posted by nookandcrannycar

but not on this one. On this forum alone, think of how many people list 3 or more cars they own. While they might have large families and need those cars and can only afford a Yaris or similar the choices they have made for the other cars they list, I think, tend to discount that possibility. All of the members of my extended family can easily afford a Prius, yet a vast majority of us choose to spend less than the cost of a Prius when purchasing a car.....and I know people outside our family with a greater degree of wealth who go to far greater extremes when it comes to frugality re their cars......I know....I know.....anecdotal evidence. I do, however, agree with you that very few, if any, Prius owners visit Yarisworld.

I'm not sure where you are coming from. I do think people think their choice is the correct one for them, but I do not think it has anything to do with what one could afford.

The Prius is sort of the punching bag for Yaris owners, and it has been so from the beginning. And the math easily shows why. If you go on the math alone, the Yaris is a much better value.

Yet the math does not tell the entire story. The Yaris is extremely spartan, and while that works for some, it does not work for a lot of others. For many people a car without the usual luxuries is not a car they will ever own. I can understand that perspective. There is something to be said for buying a car from the factory with everything you could want. Heated seats, nav, leather interior, full moon roof, etc. Some people want a car to have it all. You can't get that type of stuff in a Yaris.

It seems some people on yw don't like that perspective, which of course, is their choice.

Originally Posted by Billiam

"Snobs", "emasculated men"....Really? Man you guys are very judgemental. I'd gladly own a Prius or Prius V (and certainly could) and I'm neither snobby and most certainly not emasculated.....and not even a tree-hugger for that matter.

Since some of you seems quite worried about people's perception of you if you drove a Prius, you do understand that you drive a Yaris, right? Many of the "non manly" adjectives that you've used to describe Prius owners can be used to describe Yaris owners too. But you'd have to add "cheap" and/or non-affluent as well....because, outside of YarisWorld which accounts for a tiny portion of actual Yaris owners, most people's perception of the Yaris and the people who drive a Yaris is that it's a cheap, tin-can, econo-car and it's all the person driving it could afford.

I promise you that the "Yaris cool factor" that we like to tout around here is almost completely nonexistent out in the rest of the world.

Oh...for the record...by far, woman out number men, I'd say 10 to 1 as Yaris owners around here anyway. Maybe you guys could hang some of the those big truck-nuts from the back bumper of your Yaris and people might not notice what feminine little shit boxes you drive.

So true, with the exception that getting 40mpg is becoming cool to many people. And a drive in a Yaris and most people realize it is fun to drive, and nothing like what the auto journalists seem to think it is.

Personally I'd go with a Highlander Hybrid, because even the Prius V seems a tad on the small side. Of course I have no reason for either vehicle right now.

Originally Posted by teddy

Wow I'm surprised at the amount of hate for the Prius. It's not even in the same class as the Yaris, it's not an apples to apples comparison.

sub-compact=Prius c/Yaris
compact=Corolla/Matrix (for the sake of including the class in between)
mid-size=Prius/Camry/Prius v

The Yaris is a cheap econobox (which I happily own and would happily buy another). The Prius, across the line is a much more refined vehicle, IMO. For someone that does significant city driving and little highway driving it'd be easy to pick the Prius c over the Yaris both because of fuel savings and refinement.

The Prius across the line is a quieter, roomier car which is better on gas to boot. The Prius v just improves on all of that, this will be a strong contender for my next vehicle hands down.

Not everyone drives for the "driving experience" either. The HSD simply cannot have a manual transmission due to the nature of the drive, whereas the Honda hybrid system (like the CR-Z) can because the gasoline engine is always engaged in movement. Heck the Prius isn't even really a CVT, though it is classed as an e-CVT when required.

I love my Yaris, but I also love the Prius. If the Prius c were around when we got ours it would have been a tougher decision. Having a family now I can see us in something bigger, the Prius being a strong contender.

well said. Although Honda's system is sort of the exact opposite of Toyota's.

[Billiam]

Originally Posted by why?

Sort of what I meant. I do agree there is nothing wrong with it. It does seem though some have a preoccupation with the Yaris.



I disagree. The Malibu was a totally ugly and indistinguishable car. The Prius is unique and easy to pick out in a crowd. And the Prius is not aimed at people who like to drive, it is aimed at people who want to get good gas mileage, and unfortunately has been adopted by the eco crowd.


Probably true. Most people I've talked to buy it for the political statement, or for the unfortunate and incorrect hatred of the oil companies.

Ok, give me a minute to get over the shock of that. Oh wait, you live in Texas. I so need to move there. Seems like a really good place to be.

I'm not sure where you are coming from. I do think people think their choice is the correct one for them, but I do not think it has anything to do with what one could afford.

The Prius is sort of the punching bag for Yaris owners, and it has been so from the beginning. And the math easily shows why. If you go on the math alone, the Yaris is a much better value.

Yet the math does not tell the entire story. The Yaris is extremely spartan, and while that works for some, it does not work for a lot of others. For many people a car without the usual luxuries is not a car they will ever own. I can understand that perspective. There is something to be said for buying a car from the factory with everything you could want. Heated seats, nav, leather interior, full moon roof, etc. Some people want a car to have it all. You can't get that type of stuff in a Yaris.

It seems some people on yw don't like that perspective, which of course, is their choice.




So true, with the exception that getting 40mpg is becoming cool to many people. And a drive in a Yaris and most people realize it is fun to drive, and nothing like what the auto journalists seem to think it is.

Personally I'd go with a Highlander Hybrid, because even the Prius V seems a tad on the small side. Of course I have no reason for either vehicle right now.



well said. Although Honda's system is sort of the exact opposite of Toyota's.

Well spoken.

[tooter]

Originally Posted by why?

The Prius is unique and easy to pick out in a crowd.

Where I live... Prius is the crowd.

[mazilla]

Originally Posted by tooter

Where I live... Prius is the crowd.

Down here too, on any given day the freeway is full of 60 mph A-holes making the freeway into an obstacle course if you have to get somewhere expediently.

[tooter]

Originally Posted by why?

The Yaris is extremely spartan...

Yes.

Financed luxury is a waste of money...

...while owned cheapness is fiscal responsibility.

[Kal-El]

People don't buy Prius's based solely on economics. If people only considered the economic part of their purchase, most cars that sell, wouldn't sell. Everyone would be driving one of about 10 vehicles - Yaris, Corolla, Elantra, Accent, Rio, Versa, Sonic, ect. (the most cost effective rides). Many people prefer to spend extra for desirable attributes of certain vehicles. Be it size, performance, luxury, styling, prestige, ect. Many spend a premium just to get a badge (most notably Mercedes/BMW - when you can often get, IMO, a better car in Lexus for less money).

So why does the Prius sell 5-6 TIMES as much as the Yaris (in the US) each month? Obviously, the Prius doesn't save you money over a Yaris (different class, mind you). Technically, the Prius is classed between the Corolla and Camry, so it's difficult to directly compare to anything. The Prius is apples and oranges to every other car on the market - only the Honda Insight is designed to mimic the Prius, but fails on so many levels, hence its sales failure. The Prius sells for it's gas mileage, yes, but for other desirable characteristics as well. It mixes this superior gas mileage with excellent practicality - a very roomy hatch. It's actually quite stylish to those that enjoy a bullet shaped futuristic looking car. Many even like the futuristic interior. The Prius is also the most reliable car on the market. The battery has been known to last beyond 300,000 miles too. And yes, many just like the hybrid "green" image. All for a very reasonable price.

And check out its potential...

[tooter]

Originally Posted by Kal-El

People don't buy Prius's based solely on economics.

I totally agree. In my area the Prius is a politically correct liberal statement of a feminist socially conscious global warming carbon footprint. The Prius to Yaris ratio here is easily 100 to 1.

[why?]

Originally Posted by tooter

Yes.

Financed luxury is a waste of money...

...while owned cheapness is fiscal responsibility.

that is your opinion.

Except you bought a new car, which loses at least 25% of its value the second you drive off the dealers lot.

Many people would call that a wasteful luxury.

There are numerous used cars you could have purchased with that same money that would have done the same thing and cost you less. Or you could have spent the same money on a much nicer car. etc, etc, etc.

Of course, many people can afford to buy cars two or three times the cost of the Yaris in cash as well. Not everyone who spends a ton of money on cars finances them.

So you decide it is a waste of money. Others will decide for themselves. That is why God gave us all that little thing called free will.

[tooter]

Originally Posted by why?

Except you bought a new car, which loses at least 25% of its value the second you drive off the dealers lot.

I understand that owning new vehicles only works for some people, but drive off value is not a factor for those who own their new vehicles outright and take good care of them over a period of many years. The new Yaris replaced a 19 year old Hyundai which sold in one day for $1,700.

I also bought a new 1988 Toyota pickup truck for $8,800 cash out the door. Then sold it 8 years later for $3,000 when I bought a new 1996 Tacoma for less than $10,000 cash out the door. And after 16 years, it still runs as good as new. The savings in financing or leasing costs, insurance, and registration can become considerable over the years.

I'm a diehard Toyota fan who always buys the cheapest vehicle on the lot for cash out the door and keeps them for a long time.

[why?]

Originally Posted by tooter

I understand that owning new vehicles only works for some people, but drive off value is not a factor for those who own their new vehicles outright and take good care of them over a period of many years. The new Yaris replaced a 19 year old Hyundai which sold in one day for $1,700.

I also bought a new 1988 Toyota pickup truck for $8,800 cash out the door. Then sold it 8 years later for $3,000 when I bought a new 1996 Tacoma for less than $10,000 cash out the door. And after 16 years, it still runs as good as new. The savings in financing or leasing costs, insurance, and registration can become considerable over the years.

I'm a diehard Toyota fan who always buys the cheapest vehicle on the lot for cash out the door and keeps them for a long time.

and that is great that doing that works for you. But not everyone wants to do that.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by why?

Sort of what I meant. I do agree there is nothing wrong with it. It does seem though some have a preoccupation with the Yaris.



I disagree. The Malibu was a totally ugly and indistinguishable car. The Prius is unique and easy to pick out in a crowd. And the Prius is not aimed at people who like to drive, it is aimed at people who want to get good gas mileage, and unfortunately has been adopted by the eco crowd.


Probably true. Most people I've talked to buy it for the political statement, or for the unfortunate and incorrect hatred of the oil companies.

Ok, give me a minute to get over the shock of that. Oh wait, you live in Texas. I so need to move there. Seems like a really good place to be.

I'm not sure where you are coming from. I do think people think their choice is the correct one for them, but I do not think it has anything to do with what one could afford.

The Prius is sort of the punching bag for Yaris owners, and it has been so from the beginning. And the math easily shows why. If you go on the math alone, the Yaris is a much better value.

Yet the math does not tell the entire story. The Yaris is extremely spartan, and while that works for some, it does not work for a lot of others. For many people a car without the usual luxuries is not a car they will ever own. I can understand that perspective. There is something to be said for buying a car from the factory with everything you could want. Heated seats, nav, leather interior, full moon roof, etc. Some people want a car to have it all. You can't get that type of stuff in a Yaris.

It seems some people on yw don't like that perspective, which of course, is their choice.




So true, with the exception that getting 40mpg is becoming cool to many people. And a drive in a Yaris and most people realize it is fun to drive, and nothing like what the auto journalists seem to think it is.

Personally I'd go with a Highlander Hybrid, because even the Prius V seems a tad on the small side. Of course I have no reason for either vehicle right now.



well said. Although Honda's system is sort of the exact opposite of Toyota's.

--RE 1st Quote of Billiam and your reply: I don't really get where Billiam is coming from on this as why would 'feeling better about what they bought' enter into the consciousness or thought process of anyone posting to an auto forum, even as a byproduct of some other action. Your (Why?) short reply was insightful and made me laugh. I probably have a preoccupation with what I THINK AND FEEL THE YARIS STANDS FOR...which is mutually exclusive from the however more widely held view that Billiam expressed. --RE 1st Quote of me and your reply: I think the 2nd generation Prius is unique and easy to pick out in a crowd on the outside and is attractive, but as I am seeing mostly the interior when I am sitting in one, I have the feeling I stated and you quoted. The 1st generation Prius was monumentally ugly on the outside and the inside as well as sterile and looked as though a US Government bureaucrat designed it even though it is a Japanese car. The 2nd generation Prius lost the ugly exterior and on the interior lost the ugliness and the 'US Government bureaucratness' but it still feels sterile to me. The interior of the current S Class Mercedes Sedan also feels this way to me, whereas in contrast I think the interior of the current 5 Series BMW Sedan is fantastic. I think the Prius is aimed at people who want to get good gas mileage AND be coddled while they are getting good gas mileage (and I think the coddling is at least as important to them as the gas mileage) If they only cared about gas mileage (and the effects of high gas mileage) they could restore an original Honda Insight (it gets better gas mileage) or restore a Rabbit after converting it to run on cooking grease. While reading this part of your reply I was reminded of a thought I had a few months ago. I was at the St. John Town Center in Jacksonville Florida in April of this year and saw a Prius C that a dealer had arranged to leave on the plaza, away from any cars. I looked the car over and soon realized how loaded with options it was and wondered how the level of equipment would compare to a Prius Liftback Four or a Prius Liftback Five. I checked this out quickly today as best I could today by using the previous sentence re a search and one of the hits was an article I think some might find interesting.....'2012 Toyota Prius c Review - The Affordable 60 MPG Monster' at http://priuschat.com/threads/2012-to...the-affordable and I compared the equipment by level on the Prius C to the equipment by level on the Prius Liftback. I compared the base Prius C Four to the base Prius Liftback Four. The differences seem as follows: 1. The Liftback Four has an 8-way power driver seat with lumbar vs the C Four's 6-way manual driver seat with no lumbar, 2. The Liftback Four has the JBL Green Edge Speakers with amplifier and the C Four doesn't (the reviewer states though that he thinks the sound is better without these speakers)., 3. The Liftback Four as an auto dimming rear view mirror with a Homelink universal transceiver (for the garage door opener) and the C Four doesn't, 4. The Liftback Four has halogen headlights with Auto on/off and the C Four doesn't, and, on the other hand, 5. The C Four has Integrated Fog Lamps and the Liftback Four doesn't.......however, the base Liftback Four costs $5,005.00 dollars more than the base C Four....To me this largely brings the point back to a point I later made that you later quoted about how many people normally ride in a Prius Liftback and that a Liftback is only really needed if the passengers can't be comfortable re their number or size in a Yaris......Also, I look at the C as really a Yaris. In Japan it is called the Toyota Aqua, but in some other countries it is called the Yaris Hybrid. --RE 2nd Quote of me and your reply: The two reasons you stated are also the top two motivations I hear re buying a Prius Liftback. --RE 3rd Quote of me and your reply: Now, Now, be nice. There are some places in Texas that are 'a few centuries back', but those are much fewer and farther between than most people think. I like where I live. I love trees and have many trees around me. If one attempts to start toward Ron Paul's district via Hwy 288 part of that trip looks like a trip to the moon in my view. I have to have greenery around me. The general population fairly near me is predominantly non native (58 percent of the people are from other states and international locales).... and even though Montgomery County is (according to The Daily Caller) the 3rd most conservative county in the U.S., the people in my general area are intelligent and not 'lockstep' on everything. I haven't been here an inordinantly long time. I started looking in 2007 and moved here in 2008. I'm a 5th generation SF Bay Area native who has also lived in other parts of California, but I moved here from Marin County ('Prius and BMW land' LOL, and the 3rd most liberal county in the U.S). I have actually found people here around my new area here in Texas to be incredibly nice and down to earth and much happier with diversity than many people in the SF Bay Area even though many Bay Area people pride themselves on fostering diversity. --RE 4th Quote of me and your reply: I was originally coming from thinking that you and Billiam were both coming from thinking that the owners you were speaking about have the particular views they do because they can't afford a more expensive car than the Yaris and have collective chips on their shoulders re that. I was wrong, after rereading both of your posts I realized that neither of you was trying to say that. Except for the part about needing to save up (I don't), my view is pretty similar to that of Tooter (although if people started to get original Insight like numbers out of the Prius C (see article from PriusChat I mentioned),AND sufficient TRD options + a 6-speed manual were available (6 speed manual never will be), I might consider a Prius C when my Yaris dies. --Re 2nd Quote of Billiam and your reply: I completely agree with your first paragraph and would add that for some reason Consumer Reports seems to have a particular brand of disdain reserved for the Yaris.....and re a personal choice of a somewhat related type of vehicle, I'd go with the 6-Speed Manual 5-Door Subaru Impreza Hatchback. One of my relatives has one and she loves it. --Re 1st Quote of teddy and your reply: I haven't sat in, nor have I driven a Prius C, but I did like the body when I saw one displayed on that plaza in Florida.

[tooter]

Originally Posted by nookandcrannycar

--RE 1st Quote of Billiam and your reply: I don't really get where Billiam is coming from on this as why would 'feeling better about what they bought' enter into the consciousness or thought process of anyone posting to an auto forum, even as a byproduct of some other action. Your (Why?) short reply was insightful and made me laugh. I probably have a preoccupation with what I THINK AND FEEL THE YARIS STANDS FOR...which is mutually exclusive from the however more widely held view that Billiam expressed. --RE 1st Quote of me and your reply: I think the 2nd generation Prius is unique and easy to pick out in a crowd on the outside and is attractive, but as I am seeing mostly the interior when I am sitting in one, I have the feeling I stated and you quoted. The 1st generation Prius was monumentally ugly on the outside and the inside as well as sterile and looked as though a US Government bureaucrat designed it even though it is a Japanese car. The 2nd generation Prius lost the ugly exterior and on the interior lost the ugliness and the 'US Government bureaucratness' but it still feels sterile to me. The interior of the current S Class Mercedes Sedan also feels this way to me, whereas in contrast I think the interior of the current 5 Series BMW Sedan is fantastic. I think the Prius is aimed at people who want to get good gas mileage AND be coddled while they are getting good gas mileage (and I think the coddling is at least as important to them as the gas mileage) If they only cared about gas mileage (and the effects of high gas mileage) they could restore an original Honda Insight (it gets better gas mileage) or restore a Rabbit after converting it to run on cooking grease. While reading this part of your reply I was reminded of a thought I had a few months ago. I was at the St. John Town Center in Jacksonville Florida in April of this year and saw a Prius C that a dealer had arranged to leave on the plaza, away from any cars. I looked the car over and soon realized how loaded with options it was and wondered how the level of equipment would compare to a Prius Liftback Four or a Prius Liftback Five. I checked this out quickly today as best I could today by using the previous sentence re a search and one of the hits was an article I think some might find interesting.....'2012 Toyota Prius c Review - The Affordable 60 MPG Monster' at http://priuschat.com/threads/2012-to...the-affordable and I compared the equipment by level on the Prius C to the equipment by level on the Prius Liftback. I compared the base Prius C Four to the base Prius Liftback Four. The differences seem as follows: 1. The Liftback Four has an 8-way power driver seat with lumbar vs the C Four's 6-way manual driver seat with no lumbar, 2. The Liftback Four has the JBL Green Edge Speakers with amplifier and the C Four doesn't (the reviewer states though that he thinks the sound is better without these speakers)., 3. The Liftback Four as an auto dimming rear view mirror with a Homelink universal transceiver (for the garage door opener) and the C Four doesn't, 4. The Liftback Four has halogen headlights with Auto on/off and the C Four doesn't, and, on the other hand, 5. The C Four has Integrated Fog Lamps and the Liftback Four doesn't.......however, the base Liftback Four costs $5,005.00 dollars more than the base C Four....To me this largely brings the point back to a point I later made that you later quoted about how many people normally ride in a Prius Liftback and that a Liftback is only really needed if the passengers can't be comfortable re their number or size in a Yaris......Also, I look at the C as really a Yaris. In Japan it is called the Toyota Aqua, but in some other countries it is called the Yaris Hybrid. --RE 2nd Quote of me and your reply: The two reasons you stated are also the top two motivations I hear re buying a Prius Liftback. --RE 3rd Quote of me and your reply: Now, Now, be nice. There are some places in Texas that are 'a few centuries back', but those are much fewer and farther between than most people think. I like where I live. I love trees and have many trees around me. If one attempts to start toward Ron Paul's district via Hwy 288 part of that trip looks like a trip to the moon in my view. I have to have greenery around me. The general population fairly near me is predominantly non native (58 percent of the people are from other states and international locales).... and even though Montgomery County is (according to The Daily Caller) the 3rd most conservative county in the U.S., the people in my general area are intelligent and not 'lockstep' on everything. I haven't been here an inordinantly long time. I started looking in 2007 and moved here in 2008. I'm a 5th generation SF Bay Area native who has also lived in other parts of California, but I moved here from Marin County ('Prius and BMW land' LOL, and the 3rd most liberal county in the U.S). I have actually found people here around my new area here in Texas to be incredibly nice and down to earth and much happier with diversity than many people in the SF Bay Area even though many Bay Area people pride themselves on fostering diversity. --RE 4th Quote of me and your reply: I was originally coming from thinking that you and Billiam were both coming from thinking that the owners you were speaking about have the particular views they do because they can't afford a more expensive car than the Yaris and have collective chips on their shoulders re that. I was wrong, after rereading both of your posts I realized that neither of you was trying to say that. Except for the part about needing to save up (I don't), my view is pretty similar to that of Tooter (although if people started to get original Insight like numbers out of the Prius C (see article from PriusChat I mentioned),AND sufficient TRD options + a 6-speed manual were available (6 speed manual never will be), I might consider a Prius C when my Yaris dies. --Re 2nd Quote of Billiam and your reply: I completely agree with your first paragraph and would add that for some reason Consumer Reports seems to have a particular brand of disdain reserved for the Yaris.....and re a personal choice of a somewhat related type of vehicle, I'd go with the 6-Speed Manual 5-Door Subaru Impreza Hatchback. One of my relatives has one and she loves it. --Re 1st Quote of teddy and your reply: I haven't sat in, nor have I driven a Prius C, but I did like the body when I saw one displayed on that plaza in Florida.

Oh, no... it's THE WALL OF TEXT!