Bogus Lawsuit CostsToyota 1 Billion $

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by bronsin

Well when you consider we are 16 trillion in debt and counting up fast there you might have your answer.

Im thinking the Germans arent in debt one farthing.

We just arent responsible as a nation.

Its all Seseme Streets fault!

Yeah, I guess addressing the skill level of the populace re driving might be considered fiddling while Rome burns to many given all of the other problems we have as a country. IMO, one of our biggest problems is that we have many politicians who care more about their own selfish agendas than about the country. One of my best friends is a native U.S. citizen who went to medical school in Sweden. He now practices primarily in Sweden, and he told me that in the U.S., drug companies sponsor seminars/junkets/trips (whatever best describes the event) to aid physicians re learning all about the drugs. He said that despite what cynics might think, that this is really helpful. He said that in Sweden, the government is so worried that the drug companies might exert improper influence on the physicians, that the system the U.S. enjoys is pretty much not allowed. He said it's good that the government cares so much about potential corruption, but that it does make it harder on the doctors to obtain all potential tools that could be at their disposal', so to speak. Can you imagine where we'd be if the U.S. government cared that much about potential conflicts of interest!....step..step..step.....okay, now off soapbox

[tk1971]

Originally Posted by nookandcrannycar

^^^^^ Your post provides the impetus for serious questions...Why is it so easy to get a DL in the U.S.? If we had the rigor in any state that they do in Germany re preparing a person to drive legally, would your Taurus driver or anyone else that lacking be able to get a DL?

When I went to the DMV for my motorcycle endorsement (M1) test, the DMV person said that since I've been renewing my driver's license by mail all this time, they might as well make me take both the M/C and Class C (car) tests.

So... I took both tests. I passed both, but I didn't study for the driver's test. The last time I took the driver's test was when I was 16 years old. Some of the stats/figures are different between then and now.

As easy as I thought it was, I witnessed the test grader tell a fair amount of people there that they can re-take the test in a week.

[tk1971]

Originally Posted by fnkngrv

^ dude....the bulk of the floormat fiasco was from idiots that stack their mats. just sayin that pretty much wipes away the whole floormat argument with the argument that allowing idiots to have keys to cars is the norm not the exception. Just for the record as well my ex-wife and I got into an argument about the whole stacking mats deal a few years back when our marriage was just peachy keen...told her she was being stupid too. Leaving your other mats in and stacking is just pure laziness.

In one of the higher profile deaths, the driver of the loaner car was a cop. I don't know about you, but before all this became front page news, I'd rarely give floor mats any thought whenever I rent a car, or pick up a loaner vehicle. How would the driver know that the rubber floor mat on the dealer loaner vehicle was incorrect?

In fact, even after buying a car with keyless ignition, I still keep grabbing for the ignition key. Out of our 3 cars, only one has keyless ignition. That's decades of muscle memory to overcome and maintain for the other 2 cars.

In a life and death situation when the car is barreling down the street at triple digit speeds, the last thing I would do is to stick my head down between my legs to check the floor mats. I'd also be hard pressed to remember how to turn off the moving vehicle using the push-button emergency sequence.

In this one case, I'm not saying Toyota was at fault (the Lexus dealer is at fault here, IMO, because they installed the wrong mat and ignored a previous complaint for that same vehicle).

(from wiki):

On August 28, 2009, a two-car collision killed four people riding in a Lexus dealer-provided loaner ES 350 in San Diego, California.[46][47][48][49] The NHTSA released a safety investigation report on October 25, finding that the accident vehicle was wrongly fitted with all-weather rubber floor mats meant for the RX 400h SUV, and that these mats were not secured by either of the two retaining clips.[50] The brake hardware also showed signs of heavy braking consistent with a stuck accelerator pedal.[50] The report stated that the accelerator pedal's hinge did not allow relieving obstructions, and the dashboard lacked directions for the three-second emergency press of the push button keyless ignition. NHTSA investigators also recovered the accident vehicle's accelerator pedal, which was still "bonded" to the SUV floor mat.[50] The return spring action of the accelerator pedal was found to be "smooth and unencumbered."[51]

Another investigation conducted by the San Diego County Sheriff's Department found that three days prior to the crash another customer had complained to the dealership about the floor mat trapping the same loaner car's accelerator pedal while driving.[52] The prior driver had switched to neutral and tugged on the floor mat, which released the accelerator.[52]

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by tk1971

When I went to the DMV for my motorcycle endorsement (M1) test, the DMV person said that since I've been renewing my driver's license by mail all this time, they might as well make me take both the M/C and Class C (car) tests.

So... I took both tests. I passed both, but I didn't study for the driver's test. The last time I took the driver's test was when I was 16 years old. Some of the stats/figures are different between then and now.

As easy as I thought it was, I witnessed the test grader tell a fair amount of people there that they can re-take the test in a week.

That is quite sad. I recall a fair number of past trips to the DMV in California for registration changes, and people would have friends quizzing them prior to taking the exam. Left me internally shaking my head more than once. I don't imagine Texas is appreciably better in this regard.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by tk1971

In one of the higher profile deaths, the driver of the loaner car was a cop. I don't know about you, but before all this became front page news, I'd rarely give floor mats any thought whenever I rent a car, or pick up a loaner vehicle. How would the driver know that the rubber floor mat on the dealer loaner vehicle was incorrect?

In fact, even after buying a car with keyless ignition, I still keep grabbing for the ignition key. Out of our 3 cars, only one has keyless ignition. That's decades of muscle memory to overcome and maintain for the other 2 cars.

In a life and death situation when the car is barreling down the street at triple digit speeds, the last thing I would do is to stick my head down between my legs to check the floor mats. I'd also be hard pressed to remember how to turn off the moving vehicle using the push-button emergency sequence.

In this one case, I'm not saying Toyota was at fault (the Lexus dealer is at fault here, IMO, because they installed the wrong mat and ignored a previous complaint for that same vehicle).

(from wiki):

On August 28, 2009, a two-car collision killed four people riding in a Lexus dealer-provided loaner ES 350 in San Diego, California.[46][47][48][49] The NHTSA released a safety investigation report on October 25, finding that the accident vehicle was wrongly fitted with all-weather rubber floor mats meant for the RX 400h SUV, and that these mats were not secured by either of the two retaining clips.[50] The brake hardware also showed signs of heavy braking consistent with a stuck accelerator pedal.[50] The report stated that the accelerator pedal's hinge did not allow relieving obstructions, and the dashboard lacked directions for the three-second emergency press of the push button keyless ignition. NHTSA investigators also recovered the accident vehicle's accelerator pedal, which was still "bonded" to the SUV floor mat.[50] The return spring action of the accelerator pedal was found to be "smooth and unencumbered."[51]

Another investigation conducted by the San Diego County Sheriff's Department found that three days prior to the crash another customer had complained to the dealership about the floor mat trapping the same loaner car's accelerator pedal while driving.[52] The prior driver had switched to neutral and tugged on the floor mat, which released the accelerator.[52]

Depending on the weight and height of the driver, and even the shoes the driver wears, the retaining clips might not have their intended effect. I always had my mats secured by the retaining clips. I bought a new pair of hiking boots, and after I wore them a few times the 'wear through' on my floor mats was complete. I then removed the driver side floor mat (this was at about 208,000 miles) and the 'klunking' into reverse (for lack of a better word) and a few other sounds, all of which I thought were inherent to the car, were gone. I realized that over many of these miles, the clutch hadn't been able to be engaged as designed because of the wear the mat had endured had allowed it to 'expand' and get in the way of complete clutch travel. Neither a dealer loaner car nor a rental car would likely be in service at the age and mileage level my car had when I noticed this, but many different people with many different types of shoes driving a car might actually wear the mats faster. I think the wear could effect pedals other than the clutch. I've driven my aunt's RX a few times (including a 1,000+ miles on a trip), but I don't remember how the floor mats are configured and retained. Obviously, having the wrong floor mats in a car can create even bigger problems. I wonder if the length of a proper RX 400h mat (from retaining clip hole to end) is longer than the same for a proper ES 350 mat.

[UberSilver]

Originally Posted by bronsin

This is the same BS that cost Audi billions of dollars and its share of the US market in the early 90s. Now its happening to Toyota.

Its not possible for a FI engine to "accelerate all by itself" yet somehow its going to cost Toyota a billion dollars!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...est=latestnews

It's no coincidence that Toyota pass GM in world sales(for the first time in 75 years), just months before the "accelerate all by itself" BS.

Ford is the only American car maker thats improved auto quality and design. The other two just sling mud(mostly GM).

[bobolinko]

Originally Posted by bronsin

This is the same BS that cost Audi billions of dollars and its share of the US market in the early 90s. Now its happening to Toyota.

Its not possible for a FI engine to "accelerate all by itself" yet somehow its going to cost Toyota a billion dollars!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...est=latestnews

I too thought like you, till My Scion XD did the ACCELRATE BY ITSELF thing!
I have a manual so kicked it into neutral, and turned off the power. Upon restarting, it went to FULL THROTTLE, all by itself. I was in a Toyota lot in Hawaii, with a mechanic riding as a passenger. He was there to verify the trans would grind when going from second to third gear. He, along with myself, was blown away. It repeatedly did the same thing till he removed battery cables for a moment, and redid connections on the throttle position sensor. It then went back to normal operation. The condition is not like you think "not possible" I saw PROOF that it happens. Scary as it is, it is for real! It also was not the floor rugs causing the problem.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by UberSilver

It's no coincidence that Toyota pass GM in world sales(for the first time in 75 years), just months before the "accelerate all by itself" BS.

Ford is the only American car maker thats improved auto quality and design. The other two just sling mud(mostly GM).

........sling mud and take bailouts that give equity that belongs to the bondholders to the UAW/menbers . (couldn't resist )

[why?]

just to mention the europeans have actual tests for drivers licenses and we don't.

The reason still is 80% of the country it doesn't matter that much. And while cruel, i have no problem letting dumbasses kill themselves with vehicles alone. So much better than letting them hurt others through their stupidity.

I do think certain urban areas should actually have harder drivers license tests, but if the only way you can legitimately get anywhere is a car, then the license tests cannot be impossible or absurdly expensive, like they are in europe. There, driving really is unnecessary. Here, in the majority of cases, it is basically mandatory.

[DebbyM46227]

Originally Posted by UberSilver

It's no coincidence that Toyota pass GM in world sales(for the first time in 75 years), just months before the "accelerate all by itself" BS.

No one will ever talk me out of the idea that "O" our Prez and his cronies were somehow behind the Toyota "problem" solely to knock Toyota from #1.