Out to OH. again

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by bronsin

Yes WHY people drive down to a blinking bar is beyond me. So many ways that could be trouble!

Gas 299 here in NJ woo hoo!

You live in one of two states where you really can't know FOR CERTAIN how much gas is in the tank after a 'fill up', because you aren't allowed to pump your own gas. Given this (and the nature of the weather there during the winter), your 'erring on the side of extreme caution' approach makes more sense in your area than it might in others.

[dj92]

Originally Posted by nookandcrannycar

You live in one of two states where you really can't know FOR CERTAIN how much gas is in the tank after a 'fill up', because you aren't allowed to pump your own gas.

Could you explain this?
Seems to be another one of the strange laws in the U.S.
I often take a canister with me on my fillup trips to Luxemburg - the ~36l are not very much cost saving :D

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by dj92

Could you explain this?
Seems to be another one of the strange laws in the U.S.
I often take a canister with me on my fillup trips to Luxemburg - the ~36l are not very much cost saving :D

48 of the 50 U.S. states allow consumers to pump their own gas at the pump at a gas station. Two states do not -- New Jersey and Oregon (and Bronsin lives in New Jersey). I've asked a fair number of people in both states why and I've gotten two answers -- 1. I don't know (which obviously isn't the correct answer ) and 2. Because the decision makers in each of the two state governments don't want to cause unemployment to rise due to the pump attendants losing their jobs (which I understand is the correct answer). Some consumers like this law, and some think it is ridiculous. The people I've talked to who like this law primarily fall into two groups -- one in each state -- with people in Oregon liking it because of the political stance the law represents (they feel that the law is helping the citizens who are employed in these jobs) and supporters in New Jersey feeling the way they do re convenience (not having to get out of the car to pump gas when...it's cold...it's cold and snowing or raining...you are heading to an event where you don't want to have even a hint of the smell of gasoline on you...you are in the middle of christmas shopping...or a number of other reasons).

I think the law is ridiculous. I think it interferes with how a business owner (or corporation) wants to run a private business and how most consumers prefer to obtain the fuel for their vehicles. The impression I get is that most consumers aren't as picky as I am about the controlling the amount and assuring a fill up as I am, they just don't like that they aren't controlling the time expended aspect of the process, without any proven public good (like safety) that has to do with the actual physical operation of the business. I've had a few pump attendants (but zero consumers) tell me that safety is a reason, but I think that is BS (I'd love to see any study/research attempting to assert that point). If safety played a part, and people believed that, I think there would be more than two states out of fifty that would adopt the same requirement. The law also keeps the employee from using that time toward a pursuit that is actually valued by business owners in the marketplace, rather than their employment being forced upon said owners.

Gasoline is cheaper in New Jersey than in the surrounding states (NY, PA, and DE), and my understanding is that this is largely because the gas tax in New Jersey is lower than in surrounding states, and that New Jersey makes up for this by having a much higher cigarette tax, and some other taxes are higher. If I lived in Bergen County, NJ (one of 3 New Jersey counties that shares a northern border with the State of New York), I would drive across the state line into New York to be able to pump my own gas (and pay more per gallon). Living in the New Jersey part of the Philadelphia, PA metro (as Bronsin does) would drive me crazy, not because of the physical surroundings.... Moorestown, Mt. Laurel, and a number of other towns are beautiful.... but because in order to get out of state to be able to pump my own gas I'd have to pay a toll on one of the bridges to cross the river and return .

I don't know what the regulations are, neither at the federal level nor state to state re gasoline containers/canisters. I have a Yaris hatch (so no enclosed trunk) and a gas container wouldn't really fit with what I have stored behind the rear seat and under the package shelf. I have AAA road service and I'm allowed a certain number of calls before they start charging me per call. My Yaris is so reliable that all of my AAA calls within memory (not too many ) have been because I ran out of gas...and AAA brings me gas (part of the cost of my membership).

[dj92]

Originally Posted by nookandcrannycar

I have a Yaris hatch (so no enclosed trunk) and a gas container wouldn't really fit with what I have stored behind the rear seat and under the package shelf.

I've once bought 3 20l ones of which 2 fit perfectly behind the front seats and the other one plus another from my parents fit nice behind the rear seats, surrounded by some pallets of energy drink*.
That way, I got 115l and saved 23€ - about enough for a half fillup :D
However, I split the action via two stations to reduce the risk of getting caught.
Tobacco is cheaper in Luxemburg, too, but I don't smoke (because I believe the soldering smoke has hurt my lungs enough already) ;)

*In Germany, a single-use-bottle (and since some years even on beer/soda/water cans) deposit has been established a long time ago.
E.g. France or Luxemburg don't have this, I see the result each summer when I'm on holidays in France: lots of empty bottles lying around at the beach and elsewhere.
The downside is that although the deposit system claims to be uniform, lots of stores only have to accept the type of containers they sell.
Returning plastic bottles is no problem anywhere, but the two stores in the suburb where I live don't sell beer etc. in cans, so I have no chance to return the empty cans of the cheap beer I like locally, instead, I have to go down into the city and get it away there.
Of course you can just throw them away, but at a deposit of 0,25€ per container (!), at least I don't do this.
So I buy Energy drink across the border without deposit ;)
This is totally legal (as it is no tax issue); I even started collecting the aluminium cans I emptied at home (at the university, I use to throw them into the bins), but my mum recently visited me and threw them away

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by dj92

I've once bought 3 20l ones of which 2 fit perfectly behind the front seats and the other one plus another from my parents fit nice behind the rear seats, surrounded by some pallets of energy drink*.
That way, I got 115l and saved 23€ - about enough for a half fillup :D
However, I split the action via two stations to reduce the risk of getting caught.
Tobacco is cheaper in Luxemburg, too, but I don't smoke (because I believe the soldering smoke has hurt my lungs enough already) ;)

*In Germany, a single-use-bottle (and since some years even on beer/soda/water cans) deposit has been established a long time ago.
E.g. France or Luxemburg don't have this, I see the result each summer when I'm on holidays in France: lots of empty bottles lying around at the beach and elsewhere.
The downside is that although the deposit system claims to be uniform, lots of stores only have to accept the type of containers they sell.
Returning plastic bottles is no problem anywhere, but the two stores in the suburb where I live don't sell beer etc. in cans, so I have no chance to return the empty cans of the cheap beer I like locally, instead, I have to go down into the city and get it away there.
Of course you can just throw them away, but at a deposit of 0,25€ per container (!), at least I don't do this.
So I buy Energy drink across the border without deposit ;)
This is totally legal (as it is no tax issue); I even started collecting the aluminium cans I emptied at home (at the university, I use to throw them into the bins), but my mum recently visited me and threw them away

Good for you ! More power to you ! People shouldn't have to go to such lengths to avoid the overreaching hand of government . It wouldn't make sense for me to do that, as gas is pretty inexpensive here...and not really less expensive in any nearby area. To give you an idea how physically large this area is, Greater Houston (Houston-The Woodlands-Sugar Land --- the 9 county metropolitan area defined by the U.S. Office of Management and Budget) = 10,062 square miles.....the entire Federal Republic of Germany = 137,847 square miles (conversion = approximately 2.59 square kilometers per square mile). People in the U.S., however, do go out of their way (extraordinarily in the opinion of some) to pay less. I posted in another thread about my ex-girlfriend's parents who take their van down to Portland, Oregon (from a Seattle, Washington suburb) to fill it up with alcohol because there is no sales tax in Oregon (and pick up other items as well). Bronsin lives close to Delaware (no sales tax in Delaware) and it wouldn't take too large a purchase for him to justify the gas and bridge toll.