T Montague's 2zr swap - '08 m/t sedan some extra info

[06YarisRS]

Originally Posted by tmontague

The spin on conversion really has no benefit unless you need/want to run a sandwich adapter for gauges.
I actually prefer the original set up as it makes it much easier to view the filter and any particulates that were caught.

I do run off the shelf full synthetic oils, the current sample I'm waiting on is Pennzoil ultra platinum 5w30 and my past UOA's were with Mobil 1 0w30. Unfortunately PUP and even PP isnt available locally in a 40 weight so I'll be switching to something else.

I have so far had no reason to need a boutique brand oil that costs much more. Even grade III synthetics are very stout oils and can easily compare to many IV's as they just have that many more additives to make up for it.

The next oil I have been eyeing in Canadian Tire's Formula 1 (made by Shell) as they have a 0w40 euro spec. The Euro specs have a much higher HTHS due to their use of the autobahn. This obviously pairs well with my track use.

Overall temp of a full syn oil isnt really the issue - it is the cause of the issue. If the oil thins too low then lowering temps can help that. Alternatively you can run a higher weight oil that will maintain factory spec viscocity at those higher temps. The 2zr is a factory spec'd 20 weight oil in NA but a 30 weight in hotter climates (allegedly) this is based on 212F summer oil temps of normal use. Based on my research a 40 weight should bring me closer to those viscocities at 260-280F I typically run at on track

Great explanation. I have done quite a bit of reading over the past few years at BITOG. I used to always buy synthetic, but have since returned to conventional. I'm always monitoring my coolant and oil temps in my van as Kia makes many more sensors available than Toyota. I can't get oil pressure, however. After driving for a bit, oil temps are usually ~10 - 15 degrees higher. If I apply the same logic to my Yaris, even under extreme conditions - such as bumper to bumper traffic in August - there would never be a need for anything other than an API conventional. In my old Dodge grand Caravan, I installed a homebuilt tee and monitored both oil temp and pressure with cheap electrical gauges. I also tapped the transmission lines for both a Magnaflow and temp sensor.

One synthetic I do did buy occasionally, and will still buy when it goes on clearance at Walmart USA is the SuperTech Full Synthetic. The last 6 jugs I bought, I think i paid $12.00 a jug for. According to some reports it's not a superlative looking oil on paper - with a relatively low TBN - but fares really well in UOAs.

As for the spin on filter, at some point I expect that I might add a sandwich plate and gauges since I can't get this data from OBD. And, in the unlikely event that I decide to significantly ungrade the 2ZR performance, this would obviously come in handy.

[tmontague]

Originally Posted by 06YarisRS

Great explanation. I have done quite a bit of reading over the past few years at BITOG. I used to always buy synthetic, but have since returned to conventional. I'm always monitoring my coolant and oil temps in my van as Kia makes many more sensors available than Toyota. I can't get oil pressure, however. After driving for a bit, oil temps are usually ~10 - 15 degrees higher. If I apply the same logic to my Yaris, even under extreme conditions - such as bumper to bumper traffic in August - there would never be a need for anything other than an API conventional. In my old Dodge grand Caravan, I installed a homebuilt tee and monitored both oil temp and pressure with cheap electrical gauges. I also tapped the transmission lines for both a Magnaflow and temp sensor.

One synthetic I do did buy occasionally, and will still buy when it goes on clearance at Walmart USA is the SuperTech Full Synthetic. The last 6 jugs I bought, I think i paid $12.00 a jug for. According to some reports it's not a superlative looking oil on paper - with a relatively low TBN - but fares really well in UOAs.

As for the spin on filter, at some point I expect that I might add a sandwich plate and gauges since I can't get this data from OBD. And, in the unlikely chance that I decide to significantly ungrade the 2ZR performance, this would obviously come in handy.

oddly enough I have found that currently during the winter, oil temps hover about 10 degree lower than coolant (coolant stays around 181F) but on the highway when I'm hovering around 3.5k rpm, the oil is either equal or slightly higher than the typical 185F coolant temp.

In the middle of summer coolant will typically be 188-194F on the highway and oil around 212F. In stop and go traffic mid summer coolant peaks around 212F but tends to stay at 202F and oil around 220F max.

During 45min track session coolant stays between 220 and 235F and oil gets up to 265-290F.

I run off the shelf syn oil in all my cars simply due to the really cold winters here and how much easier it is to start them. Even my awd Vibe, gets 0w30 and syn gear lube in the differential. I have found the morning start ups much smoother, especially up North at the cottage after it sits over night. It's true that a dino 5w30 would still be pumpable at these temps, but a syn oil is that much less viscous and easier to pump, meaning easier to start and faster and better lubrication. I just wait until they are on sale and typically find 5L jugs for around $37.

I use syn oil in my car for obvious reasons. I wouldn't trust a dino oil at 290F and under high rpm for 45 mins. I have very little burning off of oil even with the summer filled with track days, likely due to the lower volatility that syn oil has.

i am interested to see how my coolant and oil temps stack up this summer without a condenser in front of my rad, a now much larger grill and a dual pass radiator. I would expect coolant to stay below 220F but as for the oil I'm not too sure.

[tmontague]

Here's some pics of the refrigerant leak



as you can see, it appears to be blowing out of the crimp on the low pressure hose. For any future 2zr swap I would recommend replacing this hose with the proper xd hose. It is a relatively inexpensive part and is much easier to do when the a/c system is already apart.

There is no way to know if this was due to the yaris hose being too stressed or if it is just age, so better to be safe than sorry. FWIW, it appears the leak has gotten bigger over the past 2 days so I think it is still blowing out. I'll likely remove my ac system this weekend if I can secure a belt locally for cheap.

I also started something new last night. For a while I've notive the front grill is fairly restrictive to air flow and I wanted to do something about it but wasn't sure what. The winter time when I'm itching to work on my car is a good time for these things. Now that the car is becoming more and more of a track rat, I am concerned less about looks and more about function. I removed the front grills and just threw in some gutter guard that I picked up for $5 at my local CT.



I actually prefer the larger mouth of the grill removed and it is definitely much larger. That said, if I wanted this to look good I would use some chicken wire painted black as this gutter guard is fairly flimsy and bends and caves. As i said, I'm not concerned with that as I don't care much about making this look really good. I still have to do the lower grill this weekend. The upper grill has holes which makes it really easy to use as attachment points for zipties. The lower grill I will have to drill some hole to run zipties into.

I had originally removed the black plastic piece that sits under the upper front bumper so I could access my horns much easier if I needed to work on them (I had issues with them in the past that are now fixed). I realized now that there is a huge gap for the air to blow over the rad without that plastic piece. I will be clipping that back in so it directs the air through the radiator instead.

There is a lot more width to fit a much wider radiator in the front of the engine bay and there are even extra holes in the upper and lower rad supports. I'm curious what other radiator would be an almost direct drop in. The problem is finding the proper hoses to work with the engine and not obstruct anything else. I think for now it is best to just stick with what is known to work and go with a dual core 1st gen radiator. Others have run these in the past and they seem to offer more than enough cooling.

I hate a cluttered engine bay, I'm looking forward to getting rid of the a/c system and eventually relocating the battery. For the time being my cash is being saved until news comes in for the long tube header and the midpipe work I will need done from a local shop.

[tmontague]

It decided to snow about 50cm on Saturday and then sit at -20C for the weekend so progress on my car was slowed. With having 2 kids now I'm limited to working on the cars about 2 hrs a day on the weekend while the little ones sleep.

I ended up purchasing some new gutter guard called "Leaf It". Same design as the one from Canadian Tire but a couple $ more and it is s thicker plastic. In re did the front grill but this time in 2 separate pieced converging in the center which lead for a much stronger and flat grill. I also drilled holes and did the bottom mouth of the grill. I am actually pretty happy with the final product and like the look over the stock look.

I got around to deleting my a/c system - well, everything except for the evaporator. I'll get to that when I remove the dash this spring. I probably got rid of about 18lbs. Not much, but there is now much more space in front of the alternator which makes removal much easier as well as a wider radiator possible. I am a huge fan of uncluttered engine bays and so far mine is moving in the correct direction. I will end up selling my compressor down the road if anyone is interested just let me know. I ordered a Dayco belt from my local supplier, they don't stock non a/c belt for Corolla's so they had to order it in. I'll post up the part number when I take pictures later this week when it warms up. I was surprised how much the a/c hoses cluttered up the passenger side crash beam and all that space there.

with the bumper off and the a/c system out I noticed that there is an 8" wide gaping space behind the bumper that is normally just covered with a plastic piece to block it off. Essentially this is 8" of extra space to fit a much wider radiator as the stock one is very small. Oddly enough my 1st gen Vibe's radiator which also uses a 1.8L engine (1zz) has a 6-8" wider radiator from the factory. I will be taking some measurements tonight but it appears that the rad should fit fine with a bunch of cutting of the upper rad support. The Vibe's rad sits in front of the rad support on brackets whereas the Yaris' rad sits underneath the rad support beam.

It makes more sense to go wider with a rad than just thicker as you achieve more virgin surface area and improve cooling ability better than by going thicker. This is due to the second row receiving already used air that is warmer than ambient temps. The measurements are very close (Vibe rad about an inch shorter in height) so with some drilling of new hole in the support and the Vibe's upper and lower hoses it appears to be a good fit. The upper hose from the vibe actually appears to have better clearance with my CAI than the 1st gen rad. There are also cheap ebay dual core rads for almost the same amount of $ as the 1st gens.

I'll post back when I have more info as this would be good to know for those that want to upgrade their radiator down the road but so far everything seems like it would work. I'll post pictures in a couple days, it is just too darn cold right now to bother

[06YarisRS]

Originally Posted by tmontague

I'll post back when I have more info as this would be good to know for those that want to upgrade their radiator down the road but so far everything seems like it would work. I'll post pictures in a couple days, it is just too darn cold right now to bother

I'll definitely be following this. It will be good to know what rad, hoses (or mods to hoses) are needed. The hatchback has the access window for the A/C compressor that could easily be narrowed making room for a - at least - longer radiator. A larger radiator might come in handy down the road if I do performance upgrades on the 2ZR.

[myfirstyota]

+1 on too darn cold
I'm gonna follow this rad quest... Interesting...

[tmontague]

Here is the part # for the Dayco belt I used for an a/c delete:

5060358
or
6PK0910

Rock auto also lists a Continental belt, just make sure you order one that that "no a/c"

The belt I removed from the car (I cannot remember the manufacturer) which I ordered from RA when I did my swap only had about 50k km on it. It had a lot of mini cracks along the ribs, enough to warrant replacement. I've seen spread out large cracks which are fine, but this one had a lot of little ones, quite a few every inch. I also noticed that the back side of the belt in one small spot looked like the outer layer was starting the peel off the belt. I used my Gates belt wear tester to check and it had a mild to moderate amount of play meaning that the belt was moderately worn.

The new one had no play as it should. Keep this is mind as I was surprised at how worn the belt was. I'm not sure if this is due to the high constant rpm of the track days I did and the heat that comes along with it, but it was definitely worn. Take note that this belt never once slipped or squealed so it was never worn out from that, it always functioned optimally. I'll post pictures later this week

[tmontague]

I braved the cold last night when the kids were asleep and took a bunch of measurements between my Yaris and the Wife's Vibe.

The good:
The Vibe radiator will fit! The width will be snug with about an inch or two on either side, but this will also fill in the complete opening very well. The Vibe radiator is 16" in height compared to the 18" between the Yaris' rad supports. This will need to be filled with a large rad support bushing, or some hammering down on that section of the rad support to close off that gap.

The lower and upper hose from the Vibe appear to be an almost perfect fit. The thermostat neck is positioned almost identical from the 2zr and 1zz. The Vibe upper hose also appears to sneak just underneath of my CAI. The only potential issue will be the Yaris battery which may slightly rub on the edge of the hose. Some trimming of the hose at the engine side will likely fix this issue, but I also won't need to worry as I will be relocating my battery soon.

The bad:
The tricky part that will likely not work is the Vibe factory fan shroud. It is a whopping 4-5" thick from the center of the rad to the engine side. The Vibe had much more space in front of the 1zz to the rad support than the Yaris' does. You can see the Yaris fan shroud is a much slimmer 3" thick design whereas the Vibe coolant reservoir is more traditional is thickness.

The tightest spot in my engine bay to the top rad support is the passenger side where the alternator and alternator bracket is. This is the same location where the Vibe coolant reservoir sits.

The solution would be to run a Mishimoto 12" slimline fan that only has a 2.5" thickness. I can mount it right to the radiator as it is designed to be and I can put it on the driver side where there is much more clearance. I can simply wire it up the the factory wires (ground and power) so it works like it was designed to.

I can then buy a generic coolant overflow bottle and mount it on the driver side near the headlight where there is a lot of space. This is simple as I would only need to run a small rubber hose from the bottle to the filler neck on the passenger side along to top of the rad support.

This seems like the best and cheapest option to ensure a properly function system and keep the most clearance as possible to make wrenching in the future as easy and obstruction free as it can be. I don't want to have to pull the fan and rad every time I need to remove the alternator.

I don't need to run a fan shroud as the size of the new rad will be much larger then the 2zr will ever need. The only time the fan shroud is of benefit is while the car is stopped or in traffic. Even after a 45 min track session, my coolant has never had an issue coming down to 212F with the stock set up. My cololant issues were seen during the long track sessions at WOT and high rpm for most of the time. Once I got 15-20 mins into the session the coolant was 230F.

The fan shroud will technically actually reduce air flow through the rad during driving, this is why the Vibe shroud has slits in the shroud beside the fan. I saw that MWR sells a dual core rad for the Vibe for $150 and a Mishimoto fan is around $60. So under $300 Canadian for the set up is reasonable.

This will not be a simple bolt on as I will have to possibly drill new mounting holes in both rad supports (easy) and cut away some metal from the upper support to fit around the filler neck and rad (fairly easy).

For those that have a 2zr but do not track it, a factory Vibe radiator would likely be more than adequate as it is about 20%-25% larger than the 2zr radiator. There isn't really much need for a dual core unless you heavily track your car or are going boosted. As long as your thermostat is working properly there really isn't much down side to a larger radiator other than excess weight which is minimal

[WeeYari]

I know the sedan has way more clearance in the engine bay behind the headlights due to the fact yours don't go 3/4 the way back to the windshield. Not sure if this is the only spot where clearances differ between HB and sedan. Just raising a highlight since most peeps following you drive hatches.

Sent from my EML-L09 using Tapatalk

[06YarisRS]

What year is your Vibe, Trevor?

[tmontague]

Originally Posted by WeeYari

I know the sedan has way more clearance in the engine bay behind the headlights due to the fact yours don't go 3/4 the way back to the windshield. Not sure if this is the only spot where clearances differ between HB and sedan. Just raising a highlight since most peeps following you drive hatches.

Sent from my EML-L09 using Tapatalk

good point, I hadn't thought of that. That being said, due to where the rad sits and the hoses run, it shouldn't prove to be an issue unless the rad support is narrower. This could be easily figured out if an LB owner just roughly measures the width of the rad support

Originally Posted by 06YarisRS

What year is your Vibe, Trevor?

it is a 1st gen '05

[tmontague]

This weekend is looking like it will be -20C, yaaaaay

I will probably just get around to shimming my Throttle pedal and letting it cure all weekend as I don't drive my car much all weekend. I used super glue and a small piece of plastic a couple years ago and it eventually let go. This time I plan on using some JB Weld epoxy which should work very well. The purpose of this is to remove the slack in the throttle pedal that the DBW system has. That "dead zone" essentially does not register with the ecu and does nothing to open the throttle body valve even though the pedal is slightly depressed. This won't help performance at all but it will make it easier to drive around town.

I have attached pics of my old drive belt that I removed from the car when I deleted my a/c. As you can see it is fairly worn in a few areas. If you drive your car at WOT and high rpm's a fair amount then I'd recommend checking the condition of your belt more often. After seeing this, I think I will carry an extra/old belt with me to try track just in case one ever lets go. It's an easy fix if it ever happened and it would be silly to need to pay for a tow just for something so simple.

[Maritime]

good idea, cheap insurance. I changed my belt when I got my car it had 200K kms on it and started squealing. I am pretty sure it was the original, and looked a lot worse than that one. I have put another 158K on the car so may be time to grab a replacement just in case and throw it on.

[tmontague]

I installed my new Oil Catch Can last night - bad idea, -30+C with the wind chill...

My old set up of the dual air compressor air/oil separators was effective but it was always a temporary solution until I had the funds to run a properly installed OCC. I received a gift certificate from work for xmas and I was able to apply it to Amazon.ca so I ended up with a proper catch can. Over a month later and here it is from China. I forgot to take a pic of the actual OCC but here is the set up I went with.

This can has two "grills" or perforated plates/baffles that the intake air goes through. It has a dip stick to check the level and it holds much more than my current set up does. In the really cold winter up here I ended of catching a ton of moisture/water in the can and it fills much earlier than it does in the summer. I was emptying my old set up every week or two and it was mostly water. I needed something with a proper reservoir.

I wanted to mount it lower in the engine bay so water wouldn't freeze in the lines, as well as to keep the COG low and keep it out of the way. The set up probably weighs a few pounds at the most, it is a bit heavier than I expected.

To improve the oil catching ability you need to increase the surface area of material in the can so the oil in the air can be condensed on it and pooled into the reservoir. This can actually comes apart as the baffles are two threaded cups. I placed a small amount of stainless steel wool (it gets contaminated with moisture so make sure it is stainless so it doesn't rust) between the two baffled cups which holds it in place in the air intake stream. I then ziptied a piece of a rough 3m scotch brite around the outside of the baffled cup.

The air that enters the can is forced by the design to go into the baffled cup and then out of it and then out the exhaust hose. With my current design the air will contact the first baffle, then the steel wool, then the second baffle and then the scotch brite pad. The oil will then drip into the reservoir before the air exists and enters the intake manifold behind the throttle body (constant vacuum)

On my old set up I used the steel wool in the first can and the scotch bright pad in the second. Most of the oil was caught in the first can and the second one caught mostly water. It appears that oil is easier to catch in the air than water.

To install the can mounting bracket I used two riv nuts from a cheap tool I purchased from Princess Auto. I purposefully bought the metric one as all the bolts on the Yaris are metric. Turns out the 2 mounting bolts that came with the kit fit in the second smallest riv nut size. I drilled two hole on the crash rail mount and filled it with anti seize so it doesn't rust. I then installed the riv nuts and mounted the can to that. It is surprisingly sturdy and i will definitely be using those riv nuts again, they make quick work is you need threads in thin metal or metal you can only access one side of.

My complaint with the OCC is that the mounting bracket has a silly design when the 2 bolts that actually mount to the catch can are on the side instead of the top. This makes getting an allen key onto them almost impossible depending on how you mount it. Most designs have the bolts on top so nothing is in your way. I will take a hammer and flat punch and dent the crash bar a bit so that I can access the one allen bolt. Currently one is tightened all the way and the other is still on the lose side.

I can check the dip stick very easily with where it is mounted and with a simple reach around I can unscrew and drain the reservoir. This wouldn't work well with the stock air box, but with my CAI I have a lot of room in that area. Once the battery is moved, I'll have even more space. This also shouldn't impede my future Vibe radiator install as I can just mount the fan a but more in the middle to easily clear the OCC.

Before I installed the can I put antiseize on all the threads which made a huge difference in how smooth everything threaded on/off. I also added pipe tape to the hose nipples before I tightened them down. They are not a tapered NPT type thread but a regular thread and they are not the tightest.

I'll post back later on how well the can performs, but assuming it will catch oil as well or better than my old set up, I'm impressed with it for the price. IIRC I paid about $42 CAD for it

[tmontague]

short update on the OCC. 3 days ago I filled the can about 1/4 full of windshield washer fluid so it wouldn't freeze. I checked the dipstick after the car drove 25km today and got close to operating temps (oil temp at 167F) and it showed full alrthough it isn't easy to read.

I remove the can to see how full it was and sure enough it was 95% full. This all within 3 days and probably 75-100km driven! It has been about -18C to -25C ambient temps here for the past 3 days but clearly the new can and the stuff I added to it are extremely effective.

I think I'll be forgoing the windshield washer fluid as I don't want to be wasting that much every week. As long as I check the can every few days and empty it then I shouldn't have to worry about it freezing and blocking the air flow. So far I'm impressed. Most of what was in the can was water but there was also a milky film on it so there was also some oil as well.

[tmontague]

The OCC was a big success, it catches about 3 ounces of oil/water (smells like fuel) per week in the cold. It is much more efficient than the last set up

On another note, I bought some new track semi slicks for the upcoming season. Nankang AR1's, relatively new to NA but common in Europe. I'll do a review on them once I get some time with them. They are an 80tw rating and are a 205 50 size


All that's left to go for the car prep before the season is to get Vibe/matrix upper and lower radiator hoses so I can install the performance radiator and install new brake lines in all 4 corners.

I'll be running a 5w40 euro spec oil and swapping out my mt-85 redline trans fluid for mt-90 due to the warmer temps coming (hopefully soon)

I'll be doing a thread on the radiator fit when I get around to it for anyone who wants to do the swap in the future

[atomic_hoji]

Originally Posted by tmontague

The OCC was a big success, it catches about 3 ounces of oil/water (smells like fuel) per week in the cold. It is much more efficient than the last set up

On another note, I bought some new track semi slicks for the upcoming season. Nankang AR1's, relatively new to NA but common in Europe. I'll do a review on them once I get some time with them. They are an 80tw rating and are a 205 50 size
...

This! I swear my oil had a weird fuel smell, but the Blackstone Labs analysis didn't show anything notable in the sample - seems like another 'glad I'm not the only one' oddity of the 2ZR. lol

Interested to hear how you find the Nankangs. With the influx of more cheap tires it seems some are junk, and some are actually pretty decent for the price point.

Awesome as always. Looking forward to checking it out sometime this summer.

-- Adam

[tmontague]

My last oil sample I sent in to Blackstone from the summer stink like fuel. Came back negative on fuel content.

I've read that used oil commonly smells like fuel, I definitely wouldn't be worried.

I'm excited to try these tires out, I'm curious how much my confidence goes up with a more controlable and feedback friendly tire