How many MPB (miles per bar)?

[Kaotic Lazagna]

I think the bars aren't all the same because the gas tank is not a perfect cube. For me:

First bar: 70-90
Second bar: 117-135
Third bar: 170-200
Fourth bar: 210-250

I generally fill up at half tank, but I've reached a "quarter" tank left at 335.

*numbers are what is shown on the trip meter, not of individual miles per bar. If you want that, do the math. LOL.

[SilverBack]

I'm getting about 60 miles first bar because I top-off to the next dollar or gallon, whichever comes first. Next bar I get 50, and then 40 til the next fill-up. 350 per tank on average, not too bad

Other times my tank sometimes gets between 375 and 400 under same conditions and speed, not sure why

[Inspector14]

up here in the snow and the cold my new yaris (1300mi on it) gets about 40 on the first bar, 215 miles total to the tank. its 100% city though.

[Inspector14]

up here in the snow and the cold my new yaris (1300mi on it) gets about 40 on the first bar, 215 miles total to the tank. its 100% city though.

[Kioshi]

reaching down to the 8th bar, when it starts blinking, like its on crack I've managed to get 407 miles. Just just basic math to calculate it. Mileage at start of fill up, subtract final mileage w/ start mileage, and divide by 8 i think.~

First bar, or equally each bar, gives me about 45-50 miles, but that does not correlate w/ the above i mentioned. I'm doing about 70-78 on Hwy 101/280 up to Daly City, so not so high for me i guess...stupid school~

Kaotic, i dont know how you're getting 70 on the first bar, damn yo!

[otterhere]

Originally Posted by Kioshi

Kaotic, i dont know how you're getting 70 on the first bar, damn yo!

Really; say it ain't so, Kao!!!

I still get about 60 on the first bar; not so spectacular.

Okay, that's YET ANOTHER reason to prefer my old Suzuki Swift; that gas gauge wasn't "fancy," but it was dead-on...

[KCALB SIRAY]

Originally Posted by otterhere

Really; say it ain't so, Kao!!!

I still get about 60 on the first bar; not so spectacular.

Okay, that's YET ANOTHER reason to prefer my old Suzuki Swift; that gas gauge wasn't "fancy," but it was dead-on...

[ztrack157]

As with all gas tanks the fuel gauges gets more acurate the lower the fuel level. Typically you should get 50 miles per bar with the first bar being anywhere from 60-85 maybe even higher depending on fuel level and driving style and about 220 at half way. I have gotten 143 out of the first bar and on that tank I had 479 miles with probably 30 to spare before fill up. Standard driving with out any real lead foot should get close to or just over 400 miles with filling up to the first click. My experience is that the tank can actually hold over 13 gallons of gas. Our car can go over 500 on a tank if you know how to do it properly. As for me I'm thinking about doing a custom tank that holds 20 gallons.

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by Krusher

The reason for not overfilling the tank after the auto-shutoff is due to getting liquid into your EVAP canister(s)... Those are expensive and only suppose to see vapor... but it's like a 10% chance you'll end up screwing the canister up one fill-up... not a big risk and you won't see it happen very often.

I don't fill beyond the auto-shutoff....

The gas cap says "Tighten" 1-click (not "fill" to 1-click) because if you don't click it the fuel tank pressure sensor voltage will read high and the PCM will assume that someone is driving around with a loosened or removed gas cap.

[b_hickman11]

I get 75-80 miles on the 1st bar for practically every tank. The most I have ever got on the 1st bar was 120 miles, when I was on a long road trip. I got the 120 in the middle of the summer (about 100 degrees outside) and with the AC running the whole time.

[Krusher]

Originally Posted by 1stToyota

The gas cap says "Tighten" 1-click (not "fill" to 1-click) because if you don't click it the fuel tank pressure sensor voltage will read high and the PCM will assume that someone is driving around with a loosened or removed gas cap.

Ok, time to dumb it down a bit... the CEL comes on for more than just the gas cap being off... or loose.

When the ECM goes into self-check it will run the evap system... if the pressures/volts do not fall within a specified range then the CEL will trip.

The gas cap not being installed or being loose has nothing to do with the evap canister... which can become soaked with fuel when topping off. This also has the potential to trip the CEL. Odds? Probably 1 in a million (est) cars will end up having to prematurely replace the canister due to overfilling.

Lesson? Read the entire post before commenting... and don't top off your tank... that extra squirt or 2 is not worth the cost of a new evap canister.

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by Krusher

Ok, time to dumb it down a bit... the CEL comes on for more than just the gas cap being off... or loose.

Yeah, we'll dumb it way down. The cap reads "Tighten 1-click" or PCM may trip a code, not "Fill until nozzle clicks once"

When the ECM goes into self-check it will run the evap system... if the pressures/volts do not fall within a specified range then the CEL will trip.

MIL

The gas cap not being installed or being loose has nothing to do with the evap canister...

Evap **system**...How do you expect the fuel pressure sensor to read right with a loose or malfunctioning fuel cap? Out of spec readings = PCM storing a code. Cap warning is all about the cap being tight and has nothing to do with fuel top-off.

which can become soaked with fuel when topping off.

How?

Fuel filler pipe and vent has nothing to do with the cansiter, vent and purge solenoids, or EVAP hoses and lines. When you're filling the tank the filler tube and vent go straight into the tank, they don't spill over to other components. Most filler pipes/hoses now have the vent hose built within the filler hose itself, older designs had the vent hose opening up near the top of the filler pipe, but the vent hose still dumped into the fuel tank, about 2-3 inches from the filler hose inlet at the tank.

This also has the potential to trip the CEL. Odds? Probably 1 in a million (est) cars will end up having to prematurely replace the canister due to overfilling.

Overfilling will soil your pants or shoes, it won't run down the vent tube into the canister, especially when most of those canisters are at the other end of the vehicle and the hoses and/or canisters are above the tank level.

If overfilling ruined the EVAP system then I guess there would be warnings about never parking a vehicle on a slope.

Lesson? Read the entire post before commenting... and don't top off your tank... that extra squirt or 2 is not worth the cost of a new evap canister.

Lesson: Read your cap. The instructions are simple enough to follow.

Canisters get damaged while the car is running, running improperly and a faulty EVAP system, has nothing to do with topping off a fuel tank.

[CTScott]

^Good write-up - It's like an episode of Mythbusters.

The one thing that I find a bit annoying with the whole inaccurate fuel bar issue is that the bars are driven by the microcontroller that runs the instrument cluster. It receives the direct input from the fuel level sender and turns on the appropriate number of bars based on that data. So, it would have been incredibly easy for the SW Engineer to add a fudge factor so that the bars behave in a more linear fashion.

[Krusher]

MIL (Malfunction Indicator Light) = CEL (Check Engine Light) I know it's hard to believe... but it's true. Why do I call it a CEL? Because that's what the domestic industry calls it... that's what I'm used to... oh well, get over it.

Take a charcoal canister and soak it in fuel... it will get.... soaked... Why can the canister get soaked? Ok... I'm going to go a little bit into the system:

For the evap system self-test: Using the engine's vacuum, via the intake, the tank will be brought to a vacuum. If it is unable to pull a vacuum a code will set off the CEL. (Either small or large leak, depending on if the tank can pull a vacuum but not hold it, or not pull a vacuum at all... this can happen by the purge/vacuum valve sticking open/closed (checked by either forcing PIDs and/or plugging the vent per pinpoint tests), the gas cap o-ring not sealing the fill pipe(checking the condition of the cap or doing an actual pressure test on it), or an actual hole in the system(smoke testing... my favorite)) If it is able to pull a vacuum and hold it for a specified period of time it will release the vacuum into the charcoal canisters by sending a 12V signal (or completing the ground, depending on how the system is designed) to the purge valve solenoid which will open the tank to atmosphere. This line is typically vented to the fuel fill area. Now here comes the physics lesson...

Pull a vacuum and then let it go... what happens? 14.7# air will push it's way into the tank. Ever blow onto a liquid? What happens? It moves, doesn't it? Now put your face closer to the liquid and do the same thing (simulating putting more fuel into the tank)... get it close enough and your face will get a little wet... Now do this over the course of 8 years or 80,000 miles (epa mandated emissions warranty). My guess is that your face will be wetter then if you pulled your face away a little bit.

Your charcoal canister is getting the same thing... They are not designed to last forever... they do have a operational life since they are supposed to see a minimal, and engineered, amount of fuel vapor. If you put more liquid into the canister it will shorten it's life... by how much? Unknown to me, but if you're keeping your car don't you not want to spend about $300 for a canister until you really have to?

Although it seems that some people don't think that an eye dropper can fill a bucket one drop at a time...

If overfilling ruined the EVAP system then I guess there would be warnings about never parking a vehicle on a slope.

This is an engineering concern and a fuel tank, if you notice, has been designed to eliminate that concern.

Canisters get damaged while the car is running, running improperly and a faulty EVAP system, has nothing to do with topping off a fuel tank.

Guess what... when you top off the tank and you start the car... I know it's hard to believe, but the car is running... and your evap system will be conducting it's business with more fuel than was engineered to do so until you drive for a while!

Unfortunately I actually dumbed it down so that I didn't have to actually go into the operation of the system and just plainly say that overfilling the tank can cause problems... but since you found it necessary to try and "dumb it down" further by being technical I find it necessary to correct you.

Again, read the full post.

^Good write-up - It's like an episode of Mythbusters.

I find this amusing since the write up was written "Yeah, we'll dumb it way down." Mythbusters uses technical procedures to either prove or disprove a theory. They don't dumb it down...

Waiting for your reply...

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by Krusher

MIL (Malfunction Indicator Light) = CEL (Check Engine Light) I know it's hard to believe... but it's true. Why do I call it a CEL? Because that's what the domestic industry calls it... that's what I'm used to... oh well, get over it.

You're trying to sound smart, eventho' you confuse the gas cap instructions, so use the modern term.

Take a charcoal canister and soak it in fuel... it will get.... soaked... Why can the canister get soaked? Ok... I'm going to go a little bit into the system:

For the evap system self-test: Using the engine's vacuum, via the intake, the tank will be brought to a vacuum. If it is unable to pull a vacuum a code will set off the CEL. (Either small or large leak, depending on if the tank can pull a vacuum but not hold it, or not pull a vacuum at all... this can happen by the purge/vacuum valve sticking open/closed (checked by either forcing PIDs and/or plugging the vent per pinpoint tests), the gas cap o-ring not sealing the fill pipe(checking the condition of the cap or doing an actual pressure test on it), or an actual hole in the system(smoke testing... my favorite)) If it is able to pull a vacuum and hold it for a specified period of time it will release the vacuum into the charcoal canisters by sending a 12V signal (or completing the ground, depending on how the system is designed) to the purge valve solenoid which will open the tank to atmosphere. This line is typically vented to the fuel fill area. Now here comes the physics lesson...

Vacuum? As in engine running or applying vacuum with hand pump? Doesn't happen while filling tank at gas station.

Pull a vacuum and then let it go... what happens? 14.7# air will push it's way into the tank. Ever blow onto a liquid? What happens? It moves, doesn't it? Now put your face closer to the liquid and do the same thing (simulating putting more fuel into the tank)... get it close enough and your face will get a little wet... Now do this over the course of 8 years or 80,000 miles (epa mandated emissions warranty). My guess is that your face will be wetter then if you pulled your face away a little bit.

Your charcoal canister is getting the same thing... They are not designed to last forever... they do have a operational life since they are supposed to see a minimal, and engineered, amount of fuel vapor. If you put more liquid into the canister it will shorten it's life... by how much? Unknown to me, but if you're keeping your car don't you not want to spend about $300 for a canister until you really have to?

My car is covered bumper-to-bumper for 7 years/75K miles (excluding typical maintenance items, carpet, etc...), but that's beside the point. If topping off tanks = flooded charcoal canisters Toyota and every other manufacturer would be covering about 23,000 (est) warranties everyday...even millions of GM pickups that have their canisters at m/cyl level, located next to the radiator, yes?

Although it seems that some people don't think that an eye dropper can fill a bucket one drop at a time...

It's called evaporation?

This is an engineering concern and a fuel tank, if you notice, has been designed to eliminate that concern.

Flooded canisters was a concern back in 1983 on a carbureted F-150, it's not a concern now. You'll see more converter lockup solenoids go bad than you'll see flooded canisters due to tank topping off.

Guess what... when you top off the tank and you start the car... I know it's hard to believe, but the car is running... and your evap system will be conducting it's business with more fuel than was engineered to do so until you drive for a while!

Yeah, your gas cap and fuel tank sensor will conduct its business so you won't have to panic.

Unfortunately I actually dumbed it down so that I didn't have to actually go into the operation of the system and just plainly say that overfilling the tank can cause problems... but since you found it necessary to try and "dumb it down" further by being technical I find it necessary to correct you.

Like when you dumbed it down with your first reply (your very first posting here?) when you wrote "canister(s)?" ...you confused vacuum reserve tanks as a 2nd charcoal canister?

Again, read the full post.

Read your gas cap again...the MIL concern is about clicking the cap, Toyota doesn't seem to be spooked about tank top-off, just the gas cap's 1-click.

If you're worried about the vapors, don't. Maybe you forgot that fuel vapor from the gas tank is managed by the vehicle's PCM and Canister Purge Valve...I guess if those were defective, then vapors might be a concern...

I find this amusing since the write up was written "Yeah, we'll dumb it way down." Mythbusters uses technical procedures to either prove or disprove a theory. They don't dumb it down...

Waiting for your reply...

Waiting for your only reason to be here. Fetch.

[twowheels]

Originally Posted by CTScott

So, it would have been incredibly easy for the SW Engineer to add a fudge factor so that the bars behave in a more linear fashion.

I've had the exact same thought! (and I'm a SW Engineer) Why couldn't they have compensated for the tanks shape? At least get closer! I notice that my first bar lasts around 84 miles and then the last bars disappear before I even notice that it's that low!

[churp]

I've always assumed it was manufacturer practice to dumbdown for the typical consumer.......can't count how many times I've heard "...my car gets great mileage, my 1st quarter tank went xxx miles!"

[NJBob]

Who pushes the envelope? When I get down to the blinking second bar, I panic and fill up. The book says 1.6 gal. left at slow blink and 1.1 at fast. Who has waited that long or beyond and what happened?