will chevy volt decimate toyota yaris and others

[Sidicas]

Originally Posted by slothman86

So this is based on driving 40 miles a day only (how far does the range extender allow you to drive?)

Let's say...it extends the range 40 miles for sake of all fairness...

On the volt? It's 300 miles... Not only that, but the "range extender" is very easily replaceable.. You can yank it out of there and put in a hydrogen, fuel cell, or diesel range extender.. Whichever takes your fancy. All the range extender is, is a generator..

Originally Posted by slothman86

Anyone have a good reason why to buy, besides the "environmental" reason?

There's quite a few good reasons to buy, one of the more popular ones being that electric motors have ridiculous amounts of torque in them. I mean, there's not a single gas powered car out there that can really compete with the electric Tesla roadsters as far as I know. Gas powered cars have been around for ages, you'd think gas engines would have advanced to the point where they could leap the torque barriers without massive engine sizes and weight, but apparently not.

Electric cars are the next high end sports cars.. No doubt there. 0-60 in <3.7 seconds. And that is just the first generation of electric cars. Think about comparing the model-T to a modern high end sports car to see how much gas engine technology has evolved.. Then think of the Tesla roadsters as beating the doors off pretty much every gas car out there and realize that the roadsters are pretty much the model-T of electric cars. I expect to see the day where most cars on the highway can do 0-60 in less than a second with the right set of tires and advancements in electric engine tech..

[slothman86]

Originally Posted by Sidicas

On the volt? It's 300 miles... Not only that, but the "range extender" is very easily replaceable.. You can yank it out of there and put in a hydrogen, fuel cell, or diesel range extender.. Whichever takes your fancy. All the range extender is, is a generator..

There's quite a few good reasons to buy, one of the more popular ones being that electric motors have ridiculous amounts of torque in them. I mean, there's not a single gas powered car out there that can really compete with the electric Tesla roadsters as far as I know. Gas powered cars have been around for ages, you'd think gas engines would have advanced to the point where they could leap the torque barriers without massive engine sizes and weight, but apparently not.

Electric cars are the next high end sports cars.. No doubt there. 0-60 in <3.7 seconds. And that is just the first generation of electric cars. Think about comparing the model-T to a modern high end sports car to see how much gas engine technology has evolved.. Then think of the Tesla roadsters as beating the doors off pretty much every gas car out there and realize that the roadsters are pretty much the model-T of electric cars. I expect to see the day where most cars on the highway can do 0-60 in less than a second with the right set of tires and advancements in electric engine tech..

I've been trying to find out what kind of generator they used all day, where did you find that out? I even looked on the GM site...maybe I missed it? I know it was on wikipedia but the link doesn't work anymore...so

Oh well I found it and they are using a 1.4 L Motor so yes it is a generator.

So I'm guessing you have this 1.4 L that uses gas for those 300 miles. That's good and solves the getting stranded problem. It still doesn't get rid of the gas so It's a start but I think once the Plug-In Prius comes around there will really be no competition. Especially being what almost 20,000 less.

[BailOut]

The most ironic part of where this conversation is going is that it mirrors the discussions that took place in the early 1900s as gasoline-burning engines began to replace electric motors in vehicles. Just as not everyone that owned an EV at that time ran out and bought a gasoline burner, today's motorists will not all run out and buy an EV at the same time.

Yes, the Volt does have some shortcomings, which you have already pointed out well, but the simple fact is that we have to start somewhere. Most folks in the know believe that we have already achieved peak oil, which means that you and I will likely see the end of affordable gasoline in our lifetimes.

While I would much rather have a pure BEV with an 80-100 mile range that can charge off either 120V or 240V, the auto industry has balked at this time and again. GM is approaching it the only way they know how: by half stepping. What I find most interesting in all this is that they are the first manufacturer that supplies the U.S. market that is offering any sort of production-level EV when I wholly expected this to come from the Japanese 30 years ago.

Is the Volt perfect? Far from it. But it is indeed a step in the right direction, if only a baby step.

[thebarber]

Originally Posted by BailOut

Is the Volt perfect? Far from it. But it is indeed a step in the right direction, if only a baby step.

x2

[supmet]

^^ there's a ton of cars faster than the tesla, for around the same price, and we are very far from the first generation of electric cars, the tesla really shouldn't even be considered 2nd generation.

[RedRide]

IMO, electric cars are definately a major part of the future.

However, they need further developement to to became mainstream and not be just a esoteric form of transportation

1) The price needs to come down to the level of comparative gas cars.
2) The range needs to be increase a bit,
3) The avalibility of charging staions/outlets outside the home are needed.

IMO, the needs of an electric car to become mainsteam are akin to those that gas powered cars faced in displacing the hores and buggy, namely cost, support and pacticality.

[Sidicas]

Originally Posted by RedRide

IMO, electric cars are definately a major part of the future.

However, they need further developement to to became mainstream and not be just a esoteric form of transportation

1) The price needs to come down to the level of comparative gas cars.
2) The range needs to be increase a bit,
3) The avalibility of charging staions/outlets outside the home are needed.

IMO, the needs of an electric car to become mainsteam are akin to those that gas powered cars faced in displacing the hores and buggy, namely cost, support and pacticality.

100 years ago, your great ancestors posted..

IMO, gas cars are definitely a major part of the future.

However, they need further development to to became mainstream and not be just a esoteric form of transportation

1) The price needs to come down to the level of steam engines.
2) The range needs to be increase a bit,
3) The availability of gasoline stations/outlets outside the home are needed. You can always use Coal, wood or anything that burns to power a steam engine, but we need places to be able to get gasoline.

IMO, the needs of a gas car to become mainstream are akin to those that steam powered engines faced in displacing the horse and buggy, namely cost, support and practicality.

Originally Posted by BailOut

Yes, it will, because the Volt is a hybrid - not an EV. The poster that I quoted gave me the impression that he was speaking about EVs in general rather than just the Volt, and that's what I was speaking to.

I wouldn't call the Volt a hybrid.. Hybrid cars have both gas and electric engines to power the car.. The volt is 100% electric with a gasoline charger / range extender.. Technically not a hybrid engine design since only one engine turns the wheels.. You could always yank the gas engine out of a Chevy Volt and the car will work 100% until it runs out of energy..
You can't yank the gasoline engine out of a prius and have it still be a usable car, it wouldn't get above 45MPH..

The MAJOR show-stopper that I see with the Chevy Volt, especially up here in NY and colder climates is that the electric motors are so energy efficient that they don't generate any heat.. Yup, 30 below and no heat! Of course, I'd imagine that the car's heating comes from the range extender gas engine but having to run that 24/7 kinda defeats the point of putting down 30 grand for an electric car like the Volt.

If I lived down south, then I would definitely get the volt as my next car.

[BailOut]

Originally Posted by Sidicas

I wouldn't call the Volt a hybrid.. Hybrid cars have both gas and electric engines to power the car.. The volt is 100% electric with a gasoline charger / range extender.. Technically not a hybrid engine design since only one engine turns the wheels.. You could always yank the gas engine out of a Chevy Volt and the car will work 100% until it runs out of energy..
You can't yank the gasoline engine out of a prius and have it still be a usable car, it wouldn't get above 45MPH..

The MAJOR show-stopper that I see with the Chevy Volt, especially up here in NY and colder climates is that the electric motors are so energy efficient that they don't generate any heat.. Yup, 30 below and no heat! Of course, I'd imagine that the car's heating comes from the range extender gas engine but having to run that 24/7 kinda defeats the point of putting down 30 grand for an electric car like the Volt.

The Volt does not have a hybrid drive train but it does indeed have a hybrid power system. Also, 1.4L is complete and total overkill just for charging some batteries, and its presence in the car puts it in the same mechanical class as the other hybrids on the road, some of which employ even smaller engines for their drive train (the first generation Honda Insight uses a 1.0L 3 cylinder).

When it comes to heating EVs employ a ceramic-based resistance heater, much like a space heater. This means the heat in the Volt will likely come from the batteries rather than the engine, but it will end up running the engine sooner in order to replenish the batteries.

[why?]

the biggest problem of all is where the electricity comes from, and how much it costs. If it ends up costing more anyways, and polluting more to boot, what exactly is the point?

[Kal-El]

How can a car that costs 3 times as much as a Yaris decimate it? The Volt will have zero effect on Yaris sales.

There also seems to be this idea that the Volt has a limited range. It is only limited in the same way any other car is - when it runs out of gas. Keep gas in the Volt, and its gas powered generator will keep it going as far as you need.

Cross country trip? No problem.

[BailOut]

Originally Posted by why?

the biggest problem of all is where the electricity comes from, and how much it costs. If it ends up costing more anyways, and polluting more to boot, what exactly is the point?

It has been shown time and again that even if the electricity comes from the dirtiest source - coal - that it is still 70% cleaner at the wheel than burning gasoline.

As for cost, I assume you are referring to the electricity and not the vehicle itself. I live in one of the most expensive areas of the world for electricity (as I write this we are paying $0.124/kWh) and my cost per mile with an EV is roughly 25% what gasoline costs me.

If you are referring to the cost of the vehicle remember that you are not comparing apples to apples. Many of the costs of the ownership of a gasoline burning car are absent with EVs such as oil changes, air filters, tune ups, clutch/transmission fluids and wear, etc.

[slothman86]

Originally Posted by BailOut

It has been shown time and again that even if the electricity comes from the dirtiest source - coal - that it is still 70% cleaner at the wheel than burning gasoline.

As for cost, I assume you are referring to the electricity and not the vehicle itself. I live in one of the most expensive areas of the world for electricity (as I write this we are paying $0.124/kWh) and my cost per mile with an EV is roughly 25% what gasoline costs me.

If you are referring to the cost of the vehicle remember that you are not comparing apples to apples. Many of the costs of the ownership of a gasoline burning car are absent with EVs such as oil changes, air filters, tune ups, clutch/transmission fluids and wear, etc.

except you have the 1.4 L engine in there as well... won't this require maint?

[BailOut]

Originally Posted by slothman86

except you have the 1.4 L engine in there as well... won't this require maint?

Yes, it will, because the Volt is a hybrid - not an EV. The poster that I quoted gave me the impression that he was speaking about EVs in general rather than just the Volt, and that's what I was speaking to.