After 2 years with my Yaris I have one complaint

[why?]

Originally Posted by bronsin

A 6 speed transmission is NOT necessarily better for mileage. It all depends on the ratios. If 5th and 6th are numerically the same a six speed will use MORE gas! You have one more gear to accelerate in. The ideal would be a three speed with numerically identical 3rd gear to a five speed 5th. It would work here in flat NJ but probably not in hilly country.
SIx speeds and even five speeds are stupid consumer driven idiot inspired devices. Auto trans are similiarly going through the idiot process of more and more speeds.

I disagree. In some cases it is not necessary, but in these times when you want to eek out as much gas mileage as you can, the right gearing on a 6 speed will help tremendously.

To the Op, there is a 6 speed that fits, but If I remember the final drive might have been numerically lower, meaning it would get worse gas mileage. If you could swap the Echo's final drive in that woud be much better for gas mileage. Not sure how much that would cost though.

[bronsin]

Originally Posted by why?

I disagree. In some cases it is not necessary, but in these times when you want to eek out as much gas mileage as you can, the right gearing on a 6 speed will help tremendously.

The right gearing...would help no matter how many speeds...

[why?]

Originally Posted by bronsin

The right gearing...would help no matter how many speeds...

obviously, and we don't have the right gearing with the stock transmission. You just get a wider spread of better with more gears.

[Idahotom]

Higher and higher gearing can be overdone. Just try driving the 5 speed in top gear at 35 mph and see how good of mileage you get. While the rpm's may be construed as "high" (relative to what....) the engine is not working hard/manifold pressure is low. Granted it is a balancing act, and in theory I'd like a 10 speed to play around with, but I don't sweat not having a higher gear in my Yaris as much as I do not being able to open my rear windows!

I've seen different airplane drivers fooling around with ground adjustable pitch props, going coarser and coarser (like higher and higher gearing) hoping and getting lower revs at a certain cruise speed, but you reach a point where the economy doesn't improve past a certain point. Let's face it the Yaris is a inexpensive car, so the engineers' split the difference, a 5 speed instead of a 6 is one of those compromises. If you are obsessed with lower revs at a certain speed, it would be more practical to get larger tires and wheels. Keep in mind they'd weigh more and raise the vehicle thus more drag, probably canceling out any gains in MPG.

[DMZ]

Originally Posted by Idahotom

Higher and higher gearing can be overdone. Just try driving the 5 speed in top gear at 35 mph and see how good of mileage you get. While the rpm's may be construed as "high" (relative to what....) the engine is not working hard/manifold pressure is low. Granted it is a balancing act, and in theory I'd like a 10 speed to play around with, but I don't sweat not having a higher gear in my Yaris as much as I do not being able to open my rear windows!

I've seen different airplane drivers fooling around with ground adjustable pitch props, going coarser and coarser (like higher and higher gearing) hoping and getting lower revs at a certain cruise speed, but you reach a point where the economy doesn't improve past a certain point. Let's face it the Yaris is a inexpensive car, so the engineers' split the difference, a 5 speed instead of a 6 is one of those compromises. If you are obsessed with lower revs at a certain speed, it would be more practical to get larger tires and wheels. Keep in mind they'd weigh more and raise the vehicle thus more drag, probably canceling out any gains in MPG.

Well stated. I know from operating both 2 and 4 stroke motorcycles most of my life that there are "sweet spots" in the power curve, where the engine is operating efficiently and with little effort, (it is usually on the front side of the torque and HP curves). This is where you want to be to maximize your mpg, but also to extend the life of the engine. For a Yaris 1.5L, that seems to be between 2,250 and 2,650 RPMs. That is where my engine is most .

[Flipper_1938]

Originally Posted by Idahotom

Higher and higher gearing can be overdone. Just try driving the 5 speed in top gear at 35 mph and see how good of mileage you get. While the rpm's may be construed as "high" (relative to what....) the engine is not working hard/manifold pressure is low. Granted it is a balancing act, and in theory I'd like a 10 speed to play around with, but I don't sweat not having a higher gear in my Yaris as much as I do not being able to open my rear windows!

I've seen different airplane drivers fooling around with ground adjustable pitch props, going coarser and coarser (like higher and higher gearing) hoping and getting lower revs at a certain cruise speed, but you reach a point where the economy doesn't improve past a certain point. Let's face it the Yaris is a inexpensive car, so the engineers' split the difference, a 5 speed instead of a 6 is one of those compromises. If you are obsessed with lower revs at a certain speed, it would be more practical to get larger tires and wheels. Keep in mind they'd weigh more and raise the vehicle thus more drag, probably canceling out any gains in MPG.

Echo was 3.54 final ratio. Yaris appears to be 3.72

That is only 5% different...sure seems more.

The diesel in Eruope has a six speed with 3.55 final ratio and more overdrive on the higher gears. It would be nice to get ahold of one of those it it would bolt to a gas engine.

[Betrivent]

Originally Posted by Flipper_1938

Echo was 3.54 final ratio. Yaris appears to be 3.72

That is only 5% different...sure seems more.

The diesel in Eruope has a six speed with 3.55 final ratio and more overdrive on the higher gears. It would be nice to get ahold of one of those it it would bolt to a gas engine.

It wouldn't bolt on.. the D4D engine is far different in shape than the 1Nz.

[NZ-FE Vios]

I'm sorry but what yall are forgetting to take into account is that in Europe out 1.5 comes with a 6speed

[Brianr4]

Well you are correct if the last gear for a 5 speed was the same as a 6 speed. I was looking at the transmission in the car now, but wishing it was 6 gears instead of 5. Which would obviously make the 6th gear a different ratio than the 5th.

[Idahotom]

I had a Dodge Colt in the early 80's, made by Mitshibushi. It had a two speed transfer case, and a 4 sp. tranny. It was a ball to drive, having two speeds in reverse was fun also! The concept never seemed to catch on, they only did it for a couple years I think.

[Blue Y job]

It's always a compromise. More gears cost more. But more features attract more buyers, if the price is right. Price it too low, and Toyota wouldn't make enough $ per unit.
I think it's geared pretty good. A six or more speed would be nice, but my car was so affordable when I bought it, it was a selling point. And the way the engine was designed and with the small displacement, it would be a complete dog at 2000 rpm at cruise speed. To change your speed or to go up even a slight hill, you would have to downshift.
In the Mustang world, it's the opposite situation, most everyone wants to make the engine spin more for more acceleration!

[why?]

Originally Posted by Blue Y job

It's always a compromise. More gears cost more. But more features attract more buyers, if the price is right. Price it too low, and Toyota wouldn't make enough $ per unit.
I think it's geared pretty good. A six or more speed would be nice, but my car was so affordable when I bought it, it was a selling point. And the way the engine was designed and with the small displacement, it would be a complete dog at 2000 rpm at cruise speed. To change your speed or to go up even a slight hill, you would have to downshift.
In the Mustang world, it's the opposite situation, most everyone wants to make the engine spin more for more acceleration!

this car is so light you almost need no torque to get the thing moving. Cruising at 2000 rpm is fine, and a stab of the throttle is all you need in most passing situations.

The problem is 1st gear and fifth gear are terrible. 1st is too short, even stock cars can spin the front tires too easily, and 5th gear is basically worthless, the difference between 4th and 5th is barely noticeable.

They should have stayed with the gearbox from the echo. Or at least 5th should be a proper overdrive gear.

[N464AT]

Anybody figure out to drop a Camry V-6 in a yaris hatch yet?

[why?]

Originally Posted by N464AT

Anybody figure out to drop a Camry V-6 in a yaris hatch yet?

I can't possibly think it would be worth it, unless you had a spare camry engine and can do all the work yourself.

[Bluevitz-rs]

Yes. But you'll need one of these.

[jambo101]

Originally Posted by regal

It needs a six speed manual transmission, it just pises me off reving too high at 65mph wasting gas. I plan on keeping this thing 20 years as I am just don't like hybrids (due to long term maintenance issues.)

As anyone found a bolt in 6 speed? Will the new Yari's have a 6 speed?

The revs for your car are normal and 3000rpm at 70mph the car is not working hard,it was designed to run that way,.
As for keeping a inexpensive econobox for 20 years?
the rust will get it long before the engine wears out.
Expect to get a new econobox every 10 years.

[NZ-FE Vios]

Originally Posted by jambo101

The revs for your car are normal and 3000rpm at 70mph the car is not working hard,it was designed to run that way,.
As for keeping a inexpensive econobox for 20 years?
the rust will get it long before the engine wears out.
Expect to get a new econobox every 10 years.

Not down south. Can keep an econobox rust free for as long as is desired and cared for.

[jambo101]

Originally Posted by NZ-FE Vios

Not down south. Can keep an econobox rust free for as long as is desired and cared for.

You are right but the op is from Pa.
As for keeping the same car for 20yrs,? i'd get bored with the same old car after about 5-6 years or 200K maybe if the car was a specialty car i could see it but a plain old Yaris?