Shifting (A/T)

[daq421]

Originally Posted by Razr

OK, Im reading the owner's manual and am seeing Toyota's recommendations on manual downshifting of the auto transmission.

I've attached it to save you the time of getting it out of your car.

Have a read of pages 112 and 113 (6 and 7 respectively in the PDF). 'Nuff said?

Which address exactly what I've been doing... My only comment was that the little car seems to respond very well to the tactic while engaged in spirited driving.

Thanks
-Peter

[BMGYaris]

Originally Posted by Razr

OK, Im reading the owner's manual and am seeing Toyota's recommendations on manual downshifting of the auto transmission.

I've attached it to save you the time of getting it out of your car.

Have a read of pages 112 and 113 (6 and 7 respectively in the PDF). 'Nuff said?

"Watch the tachometer to keep
engine rpm from going into the red
zone."

This was my favorite part, taken from the warning in the automatic section. Tell me, HOW THE FUCK can they say that when our cars don't come with tachometers? makes me want to do something about it.

[Razr]

Originally Posted by BMGYaris

"Watch the tachometer to keep
engine rpm from going into the red
zone."

This was my favorite part, taken from the warning in the automatic section. Tell me, HOW THE FUCK can they say that when our cars don't come with tachometers? makes me want to do something about it.

Well, that manual is for Thailand models which all come with tachometers. You might want to check if it's worded the same in your version of the manual before you start putting fires up asses

[BMGYaris]

Originally Posted by Razr

Well, that manual is for Thailand models which all come with tachometers. You might want to check if it's worded the same in your version of the manual before you start putting fires up asses

yea, that would be embarressing, but I remember I read it when I first got the car and im pretty sure it is worded the same, i just didnt know much back then...and now im thinking they can't say that if it doesnt apply to our cars. Honestly, I think they fucked up the american 3door transmissions and so they decided to take it out..but thats just my opinion :p

[daq421]

Originally Posted by BMGYaris

"Watch the tachometer to keep
engine rpm from going into the red
zone."

This was my favorite part, taken from the warning in the automatic section. Tell me, HOW THE HECK can they say that when our cars don't come with tachometers? makes me want to do something about it.

Our cars do, at least mine did.. but I've got the coupe with the power package, so perhaps thats the difference?

[[FR] Sébastien Loeb]

AUTO TRAN = NO NEED TO MANUALLY SHIFT

MAUNAL TRAN = NEED TO MANUALLY SHIFT

CLEAR ENOUGH?

[Pavel Olavich]

Originally Posted by [FR] Sébastien Loeb

AUTO TRAN = NO NEED TO MANUALLY SHIFT

MAUNAL TRAN = NEED TO MANUALLY SHIFT

CLEAR ENOUGH?

SORRY FRIEND, BUT YOUR RESPONSE IS SHOWING YOUR PROFOUND IGNORANCE OF DRIVING AN A/T....but I cut you slack, because A/T in Europe is not often used, and therefore people there really don't understanding manual shifting of A/T cars....but here in the states, we do....many of us do this...it can save on brakes, because manually shifting an A/T means one can use the engine as a brake, etc....

[eTiMaGo]

The way I understand it...

Manual shifting of an auto transmission is not a problem in theory. In fact, it should not cause any problems, most of the basic "sequential" boxes are just that, automatics with gear change overrides. (BMW's SMG and fancier sequentials are basically an automated manual gearbox, but I digress).

As with any other mechanical component, if you use it within its normal parameters, there should be no problem shifting an A/T. But, just like with anything else, problems arise when you abuse these normal operation parmeters. Auto transmissions are inherently less robust than manuals, coming in to a corner at speed and using ONLY the gearbox's downshift to slow yourself down is probably not a good idea.

Just like the manual Razr posted up above mentions, the main problem is overheating of the transmission.

So, the Cliff's Notes: A/T shifting? Not too much to worry about as long as you don't thrash the thing or force it to run in low gears excessively. Just like anything "fun" you can do with your car, there's the chance of it reducing the overall life of the vehicle.

[Yaris Revenge]

From my own (very) limited experience, auto transmissions with the manual override (+/- shifter), SUCK. I've driven 2 different cars with this feature, and both of them took entirely to long to accomplish the task. I can't stand that delay between hitting the lever and the actual gearshift... drives me nuts, and useless for a sporty driving style. Plain old automatic shifting seems quicker.

And actually Pavel, he's very correct. All he said was manual, need to shift (obviously), and auto, no need, which is also true. What kind of weird ass trannys (don't get all excited now) do you play with over there that manuals DON'T have to be shifted and autos do?

~YR

[Pavel Olavich]

Originally Posted by Yaris Revenge

From my own (very) limited experience, auto transmissions with the manual override (+/- shifter), SUCK. I've driven 2 different cars with this feature, and both of them took entirely to long to accomplish the task. I can't stand that delay between hitting the lever and the actual gearshift... drives me nuts, and useless for a sporty driving style. Plain old automatic shifting seems quicker.

And actually Pavel, he's very correct. All he said was manual, need to shift (obviously), and auto, no need, which is also true. What kind of weird ass trannys (don't get all excited now) do you play with over there that manuals DON'T have to be shifted and autos do?

~YR

When downshifting manually an A/T, bleeping the gas as you downshift will get it in gear RIGHT NOW! Manually down/up shifting an A/T is not as simple as moving the gear selector....you need to use your gas pedel too, depending....

[Yaris Revenge]

It IS that simple when it's built in. Hit "+", it upshifts, hit "-", and it downshifts. No gas adjustments are necessary. I believe you're talking about a standard auto, while I'm talking about the "manu-matics".

~YR

[Pavel Olavich]

Originally Posted by Yaris Revenge

It IS that simple when it's built in. Hit "+", it upshifts, hit "-", and it downshifts. No gas adjustments are necessary. I believe you're talking about a standard auto, while I'm talking about the "manu-matics".

~YR

Think about it, when you downshift a manual transmision, one most often bleep the gas to rev-match, to make for a smooth downshift...the same is for A/T, regardless of the A/T type....

Think about this too: Most people that drive manual trannys don't know how to drive them properly. One more thing: Most people that manually shift an A/T don't know how to do it properly either.

For an A/T, when you hit the + or - selector, the tranny will not necessarily shift the gear UNLESS the tranny revs and the engine revs are happy with each other....this is the same thing when down shifting a manual...to save the clutch, to keep it smooth.

The fact that the A/T's that allow + and - manual gear changes is not responsive is the driver's fault, his ignorance of how to up/down shift an A/T properly...and not the car's fault.

[Yaris Revenge]

Originally Posted by Pavel Olavich

For an A/T, when you hit the + or - selector, the tranny will not necessarily shift the gear UNLESS the tranny revs and the engine revs are happy with each other....this is the same thing when down shifting a manual...to save the clutch, to keep it smooth.

The fact that the A/T's that allow + and - manual gear changes is not responsive is the driver's fault, his ignorance of how to up/down shift an A/T properly...and not the car's fault.

Pavel, you're a retard. When you hit the selector in a manumatic, the transmission shifts THEN, but with a slight lag as the internals get the gears in order. The lag has nothing to do with the rpms already being in sync, it's the same delay no matter how close or far apart they may be. The only difference is how high the engine ultimately revs once the gear change has been completed.

Please don't tell me I'm ignorant of my own car. I'm not some 15 year old highway virgin, and you're obviously not the driving superstar you want us all to believe you are. You've posted nothing but BS in every thread you've participated in, calling everyone but yourself ignorant and mistaken. Don't you have anything better to do than blow smoke up everyone's ass?

I stand by my claim that factory manumatics suck.
~YR

[Pavel Olavich]

Originally Posted by Yaris Revenge

Pavel, you're a retard. When you hit the selector in a manumatic, the transmission shifts THEN, but with a slight lag as the internals get the gears in order. The lag has nothing to do with the rpms already being in sync, it's the same delay no matter how close or far apart they may be. The only difference is how high the engine ultimately revs once the gear change has been completed.

Please don't tell me I'm ignorant of my own car. I'm not some 15 year old highway virgin, and you're obviously not the driving superstar you want us all to believe you are. You've posted nothing but BS in every thread you've participated in, calling everyone but yourself ignorant and mistaken. Don't you have anything better to do than blow smoke up everyone's ass?

I stand by my claim that factory manumatics suck.
~YR

You stand by your claim, even as BMW, Mercedes, Chrysler, Nissan, Honda, Lexus, Toyota, and Honda think shifting AT manually is a good thing?

It seems you're an ignorant country bumbkin and your words only prove that!

So I guess you know more then the big 15 auto makers of the world, right?

You act as though you're a 15 year old driving virgin, whose new found bravado is compensating for a very small.......

[Yaris Revenge]

Originally Posted by Pavel Olavich

You stand by your claim, even as BMW, Mercedes, Chrysler, Nissan, Honda, Lexus, Toyota, and Honda think shifting AT manually is a good thing?

It seems you're an ignorant country bumbkin and your words only prove that!

So I guess you know more then the big 15 auto makers of the world, right?

You act as though you're a 15 year old driving virgin, whose new found bravado is compensating for a very small.......

I also stand by my belief that you're a retard.

Time and again you are confusing my comments on a manumatic with a standard automatic transmission. I have yet to make ANY comment on a standard auto tranny, yet you insist on quoting scripture from manuals about downshifting standard autos, and how it's supposed to be done.

YES YES YES, automatic transmission are meant to be downshifted manually!!! We get that. It's original purpose is for driving situations that confuse the automatic shifting (such as semi-steep inclines), or for loaded towing, but hell, if you want, downshift the sucker all you want. I don't care, and I honestly don't think it will cause any problem. I routinely kick mine out of overdrive to assist braking all the time.

Now Pavel, let me lay this out for you one more time, so you can understand what I'm saying. In a MANUMANTIC transmission there is a separate shifter area marked with a "+" and a "-". When you move the lever to this area, it forces the automatic to behave more like a manual. To upshift, hit "+", to downshift, hit "-". WHAT I SAID EARLIER was that this style of shifting is pointless for sporty driving, because there is a time lag between hitting the "+" and the actual gear change. It can be done much faster and more efficiently in a manual transmission. SO, for SPORTY driving, a MANUMATIC doesn't make much sense, because the standard auto shifting program included is faster. Granted, I would expect the ones on luxury cars and race cars to be pretty good, but the run-of-the-mill manumatics SUCK.

*whew!* Now, before you reply, read this through at least twice and dwell on it, so you don't make yourself look stupid again. This makes at least twice now you've misread a post and argued about it.

Really, to call someone a "bumpkin", shouldn't you at least be able to spell it first? And "compensating"? Dude, we're in a Yaris forum, or haven't you noticed?

Answer me this: have you even hit your 20's yet? And be honest! I'm genuinely curious.

~YR

[Spades]

Ok fine. I am talking out of my ass. You are right I am wrong. I still dont belive you. Why? Because the first car I had was a automatic transmission, and I was 16 and thought I was speed racer and shifted it like it was a manual. 30k miles later it lost second gear from the teeth comming off the sun gear. What I explained about the sun gear was exactly what happened to my car. So, I asked several transmission shops what would have caused this and they told me manually shifting the car is what did it.

The same thing has happened to two other people I know. I will not debate this subject any longer. If you guys want to yell and holler at me, by all means do it, I was just trying to save you from a mistake I made when I was young and foolish. By all means, if you are going to be assholes, please, F--k up your cars, and IF something does happen to your transmissions, fair warning, I am going to laugh my ass off.

P.S. in that manual you posted for me to look at, did you notice that it says never to shift gears up with your foot on the gas pedal? Wow, so the manufacturer says that you aren't supposed to do that...so, in taking your foot off the gas pedal so you can shift, you are telling me it is faster to shift in a corner than letting the slusbox shift on its own? Nice.

[Pavel Olavich]

Originally Posted by Spades

Ok fine. I am talking out of my ass. You are right I am wrong. I still dont belive you. Why? Because the first car I had was a automatic transmission, and I was 16 and thought I was speed racer and shifted it like it was a manual. 30k miles later it lost second gear from the teeth comming off the sun gear. What I explained about the sun gear was exactly what happened to my car. So, I asked several transmission shops what would have caused this and they told me manually shifting the car is what did it.

The same thing has happened to two other people I know. I will not debate this subject any longer. If you guys want to yell and holler at me, by all means do it, I was just trying to save you from a mistake I made when I was young and foolish. By all means, if you are going to be assholes, please, F--k up your cars, and IF something does happen to your transmissions, fair warning, I am going to laugh my ass off.

P.S. in that manual you posted for me to look at, did you notice that it says never to shift gears up with your foot on the gas pedal? Wow, so the manufacturer says that you aren't supposed to do that...so, in taking your foot off the gas pedal so you can shift, you are telling me it is faster to shift in a corner than letting the slusbox shift on its own? Nice.

So then at age 16 you blame the car, and hold yourself blamless for driver error?

Where is the personal responsability? Just admit it, your car probably failed because you were a 16 year old newbie that didn't know shit yet.

There are millions that manually shift their A/T's and have no issues with their A/T's 100,000+ miles later.

As for pressing the gas pedel during shifts, IT IS FOR DOWNSHIFTING, not UP shifting...I thought I made that clear...and gassing it during down shifting does NO harm to the A/T tranny....doing so during upshift can be bad however.

You keep twisting my words....coming into a corner, manually downshift the A/T while you gas it, to get it to drop NOW, and keep the rev's up as you make the corner....this is how pros drive AT's...this is nothing new, and this is the proper way to enter a corner with an AT....why do you think car makers allow the selectors to be manually placed in 3, 2, 1? Not just for getting out of snowy conditions...there are other reasons....stop twisting my words and learn ;-)

[daq421]

Originally Posted by Spades

Ok fine. I am talking out of my ass. You are right I am wrong. I still dont belive you. Why? Because the first car I had was a automatic transmission, and I was 16 and thought I was speed racer and shifted it like it was a manual. 30k miles later it lost second gear from the teeth comming off the sun gear. What I explained about the sun gear was exactly what happened to my car. So, I asked several transmission shops what would have caused this and they told me manually shifting the car is what did it.

The same thing has happened to two other people I know. I will not debate this subject any longer. If you guys want to yell and holler at me, by all means do it, I was just trying to save you from a mistake I made when I was young and foolish. By all means, if you are going to be assholes, please, F--k up your cars, and IF something does happen to your transmissions, fair warning, I am going to laugh my ass off.


P.S. in that manual you posted for me to look at, did you notice that it says never to shift gears up with your foot on the gas pedal? Wow, so the manufacturer says that you aren't supposed to do that...so, in taking your foot off the gas pedal so you can shift, you are telling me it is faster to shift in a corner than letting the slusbox shift on its own? Nice.

You know, I tried to be cool about your hostile and generally crappy attitude.. but thats over now.. You're not bringing anything to the discussion, only flatly stating your opinion as truth and when thats challanged getting all pissy. No one is yelling and hollering except you. So, feel free to leave all of us "assholes" trying to talk about this to it and find another thread to get all butt hurt over. Mmmmmm'k? thanks.
Oh and by the way, So you killed a A/T when you were 16.. I'm guessing that was no more than 5 years ago. Further you neglect to share what type of car it was, the condition, and whether you only down shifted into turns. All this tells me is a another teenager killed a car.. Whoopie, name me 2 teens that did not kill at least one car in some way or another as they learned to drive, thats why it's called "learning".

-Peter