tooter's manifold adventure...

[cali yaris]

bluevitz, did you take it off, or finish it on the car?

@ 3cyltrbo - lol, I think tooter just needs an employee so he can entertain us every day instead of working.

[tooter]

Originally Posted by 3cyltrbo

for the love of god (and baby jeebus), would someone please get this man the parts he needs (to complete the air filter issues) so that he can get on with making some vids and getting dyno testing done

W

As I'm writing this, a video is being uploaded to youtube, and will be ready in about 15 minutes.

It's just a cold start and a little revving. You can see the tooter T shirt air filter sucking into the velocity stack.

I'll do a running video after work if I have the time.

[tooter]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

@ 3cyltrbo - lol, I think tooter just needs an employee so he can entertain us every day instead of working.

Work makes the money to fund this project.

All totalled up so far, I have $2000 in the tooter intake manifold. But the personal satisfaction of actually driving the completed prototype is well worth the cost.

[tooter]

...and here's the cold start video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaH8Q...ature=youtu.be

[anomoly40]

$2000? I guess i forgot how much machine shop time costs since my time is free.

[tooter]

Originally Posted by anomoly40

$2000? I guess i forgot how much machine shop time costs since my time is free.

You can drink your coffee again...

...because that's not just for the single prototype, but for a small limited production run of tooters.

I even have the marketing slogan:

"if it sucks... it's a tooter"

[suckerface]

Oh really? Is this the full manifold, or just the flange and TB adapter?

[tooter]

Originally Posted by suckerface

Oh really? Is this the full manifold, or just the flange and TB adapter?

Both.

My goal is to hopefully sell enough tooters to at least break even on the design, material, manufacturing and assembly costs. The market is infintessimally small so I'm only making just enough that I think might actually sell. Kits with the tooter mounting flange, throttle body bolts and adaptor, and gaskets for the do-it-yourselfers and maybe a few assembled units for those who want a complete bolt on manifold. Either way an intake still needs to be modified to fit the unusual placement of the throttlebody. Ironically, the tooter might shine the most in a forced intake situation because it's capable of flowing about 20% more air under identical conditions.

What I'm most happy about is how well the manifold is working for just ordinary everyday transportation driving, which is what the wife and me use our car for. I even shoved the big BLOX air filter over the T shirt for some extra protection and drove it downtown for work today...



...also did a some 70mph freeway when I could just to see how it felt. Man, it runs great even with the doubled up rag restricting the intake! Since all manifolds are a compromise between bottom end torque and top end horsepower, it will be really interesting to see which end it favors on the dyno. Just from the seat of the pants, it seems to favor the bottom since I haven't actually run the engine above 4,000 rpm.

[tooter]

Just did the first gas fill up with the tooter and it appears that it's not hurting the mileage any at 39.1 mpg with a combination of city, rural highway, and freeway driving. I'll need some more fillups to establish a reliable average.

[ljming99]

Originally Posted by tooter

Both.

My goal is to hopefully sell enough tooters to at least break even on the design, material, manufacturing and assembly costs. The market is infintessimally small so I'm only making just enough that I think might actually sell. Kits with the tooter mounting flange, throttle body bolts and adaptor, and gaskets for the do-it-yourselfers and maybe a few assembled units for those who want a complete bolt on manifold. Either way an intake still needs to be modified to fit the unusual placement of the throttlebody. Ironically, the tooter might shine the most in a forced intake situation because it's capable of flowing about 20% more air under identical conditions.

What I'm most happy about is how well the manifold is working for just ordinary everyday transportation driving, which is what the wife and me use our car for. I even shoved the big BLOX air filter over the T shirt for some extra protection and drove it downtown for work today...



...also did a some 70mph freeway when I could just to see how it felt. Man, it runs great even with the doubled up rag restricting the intake! Since all manifolds are a compromise between bottom end torque and top end horsepower, it will be really interesting to see which end it favors on the dyno. Just from the seat of the pants, it seems to favor the bottom since I haven't actually run the engine above 4,000 rpm.

Doesnt really matter, next step will be tuning...that will take care of the high end anyway.

[Golddeenoh]

after all of this designing and building does the throttle body sit fairly close to the same position as the OEM location or is it way out of whack. CAI might be an issue if it doesn't line up like the OEM one but for boost it is still good.

[cali yaris]

Doesnt really matter, next step will be tuning...that will take care of the high end anyway.

He's not doing any tuning, just a dyno.

[tooter]

Originally Posted by Golddeenoh

after all of this designing and building does the throttle body sit fairly close to the same position as the OEM location or is it way out of whack.

The position of the throttle body is fixed by the profile of the Corolla manifold as well as the 1 inch thick throttle body adaptor. Looking at the engine from the front, the throttle body is moved 2 3/4 inches to the right and tips upward about 20 degrees less than the stock position.

CAI might be an issue if it doesn't line up like the OEM one but for boost it is still good.

Yes.

Any normally aspirated intake would need to be modified (shortened) except perhaps forced intakes. When my short ram intake is modified to fit, I'll take detailed pictures to show what works.

Basically, a 2 3/4 inch section would need to be cut out from somewhere along the length of the CAI, and a silicone coupling added to reconnect the tube. That should do it. The flexible nature of the coupling will allow for the altered tilt, as well as the coupling on the throttle body itself.

[tooter]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

He's not doing any tuning, just a dyno.

Yes.

I'm going the simple route by letting the stock ECU learn the new operating parameters of the manifold. It's been working fine just as a bolt-on, with good driveability, excellent gas mileage, and no triggered Check Engine Light.

The new dyno chart will show the F/A, and will be compared to the baseline runs just to see what the difference is. I don't really see that there would be much difference as everything on each side of the manifold (throttle body and engine) is exactly the same.

By sticking to my guns on making the ONLY change be the manifold, it will be a simple matter to accurately verify the advantages and shortcomings on the dyno. I believe that there will be both, I just don't know exactly what they will be yet.

From what I've read on intake manifold design, there's always tension between the driveability of low end torque and the excitement of flat out top end horsepower. I like more low end torque, because that's where good gas mileage comes from, and with the tooter runners being slightly longer than the stock manifold, my own direct driving experience seems to confirm that. On level ground I can let out the clutch with almost no gas pedal and the car moves without stalling. To me, this is valuable asset to possess, especially when driving in heavy stop and go traffic. It also can save a lot of wear and tear on a clutch.

What I like about this particular manifold is that it is an "outside the box" design. Almost every 4 cylinder inline intake manifold made is log style. You take a rectangle, punch 4 holes in one side and poke in some runners along the edge, stick a throttle body on one end, and then the hardest part, design all of the proportions to enhance the power band of the engine where you want it. It's obviously a good sound practical easy to produce design, or every car maker wouldn't be using it. Richard Holdener, Golden Eagle, and Weapon R all use exactly this same approach.








In contrast the Corolla design was not only harder to produce, it takes up a lot more space...




To have runners long enough, the manifold itself needs to be longer, whereas on the log manifolds you simply wrap the runners around the plenum like a compact space efficient snail shell. I'm certain this is why this design was abandoned after just a few years of production. Plastic molding is so much cheaper than casting and machining aluminium, mandrel bending tubing, and welding all the parts together.

[Golddeenoh]

I was hope'n this will be usable with my AEM CAI, trying to get a little more power and a little more MPG, with out getting into the engine.

[tooter]

Originally Posted by Golddeenoh

I was hope'n this will be usable with my AEM CAI, trying to get a little more power and a little more MPG, with out getting into the engine.

I take it yours looks similar to this...



Since the throttle body on the tooter is moved to the right, your AEM would likely need to be shortened about 3 inches between the MAF and the throttle body coupling.

Yeah, I'm the same way, and won't be digging into the engine when it runs just fine the way it is.

[malibuguy]

I planned on making my own CAI like the one i made for my old xB. However, if these work out obviously im down for the flanges (as ive been sitting on a 1zz intake for quite a while) and ill just make induction custom to the manifold...and maybe perhaps given tooter graces, reproducing them for a few peoples who dont have fab skills?

[3cyltrbo]

less talky

more dyno-y