Would an All-Electric yaris be cheaper in the long run?

[captainm27]

Imagine if Toyota decided to come out with an all-electric Yaris: They would remove the engine and the transmission (the two most expensive parts) and replace it with two eletric motors (one on each front wheel) and a battery to power it.

Since now you don't need oil changes, trans fulid changes, coolant changes, timing belts, etc, and all the things associated with an engine/trans configuration, would the total overall cost be cheaper? Would the oil companines just sit idly by with something like this?

What do you think?

[roxy1]

no way to know without knowing the starting price, which i expect would be considerably higher than a gas engine yaris.

[BailOut]

A lot more is done away with in an EV versus a fossil fuel burner than just the engine and transmission. Add to that all emmission controls, the entire exhaust system, etc. The Yaris already has electronic steering so that's taken care of.

You can also factor in less than half the operating costs of a fossil fuel burner, and better than breaking even if you have to replace the battery pack every 5 years.

With all that taken into account they are even, and with mass production the pricing would become attractive. If you don't have to pay for the battery pack then it could be priced $5k higher than its dirtier counterpart and still be a smart purchase.

[firebob]

With the rising cost of power would it pay off?
Would the US power grid support even 10% of the population having electric cars?
Would having electric cars truly reduce the demand on oil with most of our power coming form oil?

[BailOut]

Originally Posted by firebob

With the rising cost of power would it pay off?

All energy costs are going up, not just electricity. I paid $3/gallon to fill up yesterday.

Originally Posted by firebob

Would the US power grid support even 10% of the population having electric cars?

Yes, it would, and then some. Current estimates are that the grid can handle 40-46% EV adoption, and the cost to expand that capacity is a fraction of what we spent to dot our landscape with gas stations and refineries.

Originally Posted by firebob

Would having electric cars truly reduce the demand on oil with most of our power coming form oil?

I'm not sure what you mean as none of our electricity comes from oil. It comes from coal, natural gas, nuclear, geothermal, hydro, solar and wind. If you meant coal, study after study has shown that even if your electricity comes from a coal plant - by far the dirtiest source - it is 70% cleaner from well to wheel than gasoline.

[Sirius-XM]

In the Northeast, the power grid can barely handle the load of home air conditioning during mild heat waves. I am sure that the Northeast is not unique. Electric is also not cheap in this area

I am not a big fan of the concept of the electric car. While the car is clean the methods of producing electric often isn't. I think the best solution are small cars and hybrids. I would go a step further and suppport laws that say if you want an SUV or large vehicle it has to be a hybrid.
__________________

“Many laws protecting environmental quality have promoted liberty by securing property against the destructive trespass of pollution” — Ronald Reagan

[scape]

to OP: i don't believe so. batteries are just too expensive, and need replacing too often. and in similar thoughts, think about what it takes just to create a big enough battery for a car application, it's like solar panels-- in the end it takes more energy to make than you can receive from it. that's just my take on it.
now a diesel-hybrid yaris would rock, imo, it'd also probably be around 16-18k$ or more, when all is said and done :\

[BailOut]

Originally Posted by scape

to OP: i don't believe so. batteries are just too expensive, and need replacing too often. and in similar thoughts, think about what it takes just to create a big enough battery for a car application, it's like solar panels-- in the end it takes more energy to make than you can receive from it. that's just my take on it.
now a diesel-hybrid yaris would rock, imo, it'd also probably be around 16-18k$ or more, when all is said and done :\

I cannot identify a single true or accurate statement in your post. Rather than dissect and refute it, I encourage you to spend the time and effort to educate yourself properly, from proper sources. This is also the perfect opportunity for you to learn how to investigate the funding source of what you read.

Follow the money to find the (un)truth.

[captainm27]

Thanks for your responses. Bailout, I see that you are pretty optimistic about such a possibility. In a similar way, I was thinking the same like you, in seeing how an electric only yaris would be able to get rid of much of the components needed just to run a normal gas engine. I almost forgot about the battery life though. I would think that those batteries on a car will most certainly have to be replaced down the road. Now I know that the Prius and similar hybrids are still running good, even after the old ones have been going on for 10 years or so, but that's because, from what I read, they are never full charged nor depleted, but kept between a 40% - 70%. But the way I see it, they never use the full capacity of the battery. Hmm....just my thoughts.

[scape]

Originally Posted by BailOut

I cannot identify a single true or accurate statement in your post. Rather than dissect and refute it, I encourage you to spend the time and effort to educate yourself properly, from proper sources. This is also the perfect opportunity for you to learn how to investigate the funding source of what you read.

Follow the money to find the (un)truth.

I'm sorry you cannot see the reality of the situation. If a full-on electric car could exist at a reasonable price, it would. Do you not agree? Battery technology has a ways to go before it is anything close to realistic for electric-only cars. Even the total cost of ownership on a Prius outweighs that of a Yaris.
I find no reason to defend myself, but have you done an ounce of research on this matter? Put your pride and arrogance away and see the situation for what it is, not what it could be.

[cali yaris]

If a full-on electric car could exist at a reasonable price, it would. Do you not agree?

I think it's the willingness of BUYERS that determine the market, not the will of the manufacturers (who are driven by profit). Electric cars just don't make sense for most car owners, until they have longer ranges and quicker recharges. This has nothing to do with cost over time -- simply whether it's convenient to have a car like that or not.

Actually, as often as I disagree with bailout (and call him out for unsubstantiated opinions), I believe he IS educated in this area, and I agree with most of his points.

A couple of additional thoughts:
*you can add smog inspections to your list of expenses saved.
*The yaris doesn't need power steering at all, less energy used by the system -- and I prefer it without.
*there is a greater cost for regenerative braking technology (and more parts in that system) on the other side.

Funny thing about forums - no one ever bothers to cite their source. So, either we agree to disagree, or we ALL cite what we base our opinions on. I doubt the latter is going to happen, so how about a little mutual respect?

Telling someone it's a great time for them to learn (bailout) is sarcastic - so is calling someone prideful and arrogant (scape). In what way does that serve the argument, or the OP's question?

[1NZYaris1]

Then you also need to take into account the latest news from Japan on Electric cars .
Are you ready for this
as of Now All electric cars that are produced in Japan
must be fitted with external speakers , that produce a sound of what ever
ie running water , Chirpping Birds etc
so people can hear the cars coming
This is due to ,the many pedestrian deaths cuased by electric cars , been seen and not heard
and people steping out in front of them

[cali yaris]

^ that sounds peaceful! - would be kind of entertaining at the drag strip, too.

[firebob]

I read an article last year saying that for such a load to be added to our power grid we would have to go back to load shedding and electric cars would be one of the items that would be shed. I’ll try to dig up the article some time to night.

I do have a link that might help someone visualize the power grid.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=110997398

Originally Posted by 1NZYaris1

as of Now All electric cars that are produced in Japan
must be fitted with external speakers , that produce a sound of what ever
ie running water , Chirpping Birds etc
so people can hear the cars coming

My bone stock yaris is about unheard as it is.

[roxy1]

[QUOTE=BailOut;433432] If you don't have to pay for the battery pack then it could be priced $5k higher than its dirtier counterpart and still be a smart purchase.[/QUOTE

thats the rub. if it were only $5k more, that would be fantastic. im afraid it will be at least $7-$10k more than its gas engine counterpart.

[firebob]

Level 1 requires a dedicated 120, 20 amp GFCI outlet
Level 2 requires a dedicated 240, 40 amp GFCI outlet

I could see where a power company would want a level 2 charger to be able to be dropped form the system liked they used to do with electric water heaters in some parts of the country.

The more power you use the more they charge per a KWH. Unless there were some other tax incentives or something I still don’t see where it would pay off.

[cali yaris]

most charging would occur at night, during lower consumption periods. Sounds alright to me

[firebob]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

most charging would occur at night, during lower consumption periods. Sounds alright to me

Are you saying that you would not just come home and plug it up or would you come home and hope you plug it in right before you go to bed. I’m sure unless you were going right back out you would plug it in when you got home so no I don’t think most of the charging would be at night; I think most of it would be when there was already a high demand on the power grid from every one getting home from work cooking dinner and taking showers.