tooter's manifold adventure...

[cali yaris]

more on "wrecking" the motor.

It should be pointed out also that you have no way of knowing the long term affects of your manifold on your motor. In fact, you could be feeding one cylinder too much air, or not enough, with a dramatic decrease in engine longevity.

If you want to know, I suggest a look at your plugs now and 10,000 miles from now, and a compression test would be a good idea as well. All stuff you can do yourself at no cost.

[cali yaris]

By "exactly the same conditions", I meant engine conditions.

Did you also record intake temps when you did your baseline? Sorry if I missed that post.

[xnamerxx]

I'll let you know this the Pikes Peak racers don't use air filters and that's back when they ran on dirt. I know this because I had a 900hp TRD 503e engine sitting 2 feet away from me for 2 years.

That was a cool motor ITB"s with a common plenum for the turbo's only bad thing was once the head was bolted on the block couldn't be reused.

[Flipper_1938]

Originally Posted by xnamerxx

the turbo's only bad thing was once the head was bolted on the block couldn't be reused.

Why?

[xnamerxx]

I don't wanna hijack much but this was the explanation that was given to me by a TRD engineer.

When the heads are bolted onto the block the block would distort, and when the heads would be unbolted the block would remain distorted, and since its a race engine it was all built to a specific tolerance and it couldn't be machined or it would go out of spec.

You also have to remember these engines were build for IMSA racing so they only need to last for a 24hr race and then they would be replaced. Those motors could make an insane amount of power from a 2.3l reliably but for some reason they have turbo failure issues so you either get lucky or you have a motor that cooks after a short period of time.

In case you were wondering they make 900+hp at 31psi only problem is they sound terrible not a nice sounding engine.

[tooter]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

Cars with ITB's and velocity stacks dyno every day. Dyno shops don't have particulate matter floating around; if they did, I'd probably choose another shop.

Since that's not going to hurt your engine, it's not a valid reason to wait.

I don't care when you do it, just pointing out a bad argument when I see one.

Thanks for your input on my bad argument and understanding that I'm just a beginner at this. The first pulls were done with the Blox filter, so my common sense tells me that the second ones will also be done with the same filter. I'm still sticking with the manifold being the only change. USPS tracking had the silicone connector arriving yesterday, so I'll be headed to the Post Office tomorrow after work to see what's up.

[tooter]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

more on "wrecking" the motor.

It should be pointed out also that you have no way of knowing the long term affects of your manifold on your motor. In fact, you could be feeding one cylinder too much air, or not enough, with a dramatic decrease in engine longevity.

If you want to know, I suggest a look at your plugs now and 10,000 miles from now, and a compression test would be a good idea as well. All stuff you can do yourself at no cost.

Thanks for the good advice, Garm... I'll do just that.
It's one thing I really like about this particular design in that it does not possess the inherent runner inequities of the typical log style manifolds which are fed from one end...



...because all 4 runners share exactly the same relationship to the throttle body. I'm also counting on the fact that this design had already been produced for 4 years and ran on tens of thousands of Corollas over a time span of as much as 14 years.

[tooter]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

Did you also record intake temps when you did your baseline? Sorry if I missed that post.

Yes. It was addressed in post #604.

[ljming99]

Originally Posted by tooter

Thanks for your input on my bad argument and understanding that I'm just a beginner at this. The first pulls were done with the Blox filter, so my common sense tells me that the second ones will also be done with the same filter. I'm still sticking with the manifold being the only change. USPS tracking had the silicone connector arriving yesterday, so I'll be headed to the Post Office tomorrow after work to see what's up.

Will there be a run with stock airbox as well?

That will be a good baseline to see if just changing the intake manifold alone will account for any gains/loss

[tooter]

Originally Posted by xnamerxx

I don't wanna hijack much but this was the explanation that was given to me by a TRD engineer.

When the heads are bolted onto the block the block would distort, and when the heads would be unbolted the block would remain distorted, and since its a race engine it was all built to a specific tolerance and it couldn't be machined or it would go out of spec.

You also have to remember these engines were build for IMSA racing so they only need to last for a 24hr race and then they would be replaced. Those motors could make an insane amount of power from a 2.3l reliably but for some reason they have turbo failure issues so you either get lucky or you have a motor that cooks after a short period of time.

In case you were wondering they make 900+hp at 31psi only problem is they sound terrible not a nice sounding engine.

That's really fascinating information namer.
I'm counting on my engine lasting longer than 24 hours.

That Pikes Peak racing engine produced .39 horsepower per cubic centimeter, or over 5.5 times that of a stock Yaris which produces just .07 horsepower per cubic centimeter.

Here's Rod Millen at Pikes Peak...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soQsCyr0hTw

[xnamerxx]

Originally Posted by tooter

That's really fascinating information namer.
I'm counting on my engine lasting longer than 24 hours.

That Pikes Peak racing engine produced .39 horsepower per cubic centimeter, or over 5.5 times that of a stock Yaris which produces just .07 horsepower per cubic centimeter.

Here's a Toyota Calica at Pikes Peak...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQj2gWJ30YI

The stories I could tell you about that car but those are not for the internet.

[tooter]

Originally Posted by ljming99

Will there be a run with stock airbox as well?

That will be a good baseline to see if just changing the intake manifold alone will account for any gains/loss

I don't believe that the stock air box would work with this manifold, although I didn't actually try. The throttle body is pushed over to the right about three inches because the long runners aren't compactly wrapped around the plenum like they are on the stock plastic manifold...

[malibuguy]

Originally Posted by tooter

Thanks for the offer, guy...
But I'll be producing complete bolt on tooters myself so as to be able to recover the initial design and production tool-up costs.

Think of your exhausts... When you design a system that no one else has, you want to be the one to make and sell them yourself.

didnt you lead off this whole thing with the notion of selling just flanges along with completed units? I believe you have even mentioned it more then once.

I dont see what is the issue of selling just flanges (just like we sell all the same componants we use in our kits), you can still make money off of them. I weld my own stuff, its what I do & i already have a manifold to cut up.

If not, this has been a very disappointing thread. When I pop my hood, I like being able to say...i fabricated that, I made that, etc. Obviously you designed & made the flanges, just like I did not make the mufflers I use (i have made my own mufflers & resonators before however)

[tooter]

Originally Posted by malibuguy

didnt you lead off this whole thing with the notion of selling just flanges along with completed units? I believe you have even mentioned it more then once.

Yes, that's correct malibu. I'm sorry if you had misunderstood. I said that I'm going to sell both... including complete bolt on manifolds. I already have five, four to sell to help cover the money I put into this project, and one for my own car. Man, if you really were in Malibu, I'd be happy to pay you to do the welding, but the cost of freight back and forth would cut too deep.

[cali yaris]

I said that I'm going to sell both... including complete bolt on manifolds.

Can you refresh our memories and point to that post?

[tk-421]

Originally Posted by tooter

I said that I'm going to sell both... including complete bolt on manifolds. I already have five, four to sell to help cover the money I put into this project, and one for my own car.

Just don't do any selling before you let us mods know first, mkay?
(BTW, I may go for one of these myself)

[tooter]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

Can you refresh our memories and point to that post?

Sure, Garm.

Post #584

Originally Posted by suckerface
Oh really? Is this the full manifold, or just the flange and TB adapter?

Both.

My goal is to hopefully sell enough tooters to at least break even on the design, material, manufacturing and assembly costs. The market is infintessimally small so I'm only making just enough that I think might actually sell. Kits with the tooter mounting flange, throttle body bolts and adaptor, and gaskets for the do-it-yourselfers and maybe a few assembled units for those who want a complete bolt on manifold. Either way an intake still needs to be modified to fit the unusual placement of the throttlebody. Ironically, the tooter might shine the most in a forced intake situation because it's capable of flowing about 20% more air under identical conditions.

[tooter]

Originally Posted by tk-421

Just don't do any selling before you let us mods know first, mkay?
(BTW, I may go for one of these myself)

Sure will, tk.

I realize that (depending on the dyno results) this will likely not be just a one-off private party sale, and that it crosses the borderline into being a commercial venture. Can you let me know how much you charge for the privelege of selling here so that I can factor that cost into the selling price of the kits and manifolds? Thanks in advance.