So Long All - Moving On

[SeriousBlack]

Originally Posted by nookandcrannycar

I don't think you should have to take what I was mentioning into consideration when choosing a car because you are Canadian and the rule of law in your country wasn't violated as it was in mine....and your tax money didn't go to help with the subversion of those laws, my tax money did. I only asked that the rule of law be followed. That isn't a political request. Obama made it political by the favoritism that he showed to the UAW Health Plan. As Charles Lane wrote in the Washington Post, the UAW got a much better deal than it would have from a private equity firm. And yes, I think that a managed bankruptcy would have would have been better generally for competition because it would have eased the burden of union contracts. Also, the government still could have been involved money wise in a managed bankruptcy.

I don't think a continental economy can survive without a vigorous, dynamic manufacturing sector, I just think a continental economy can survive without a unionized manufacturing sector. Auto plants in Right to Work states in the US South are but one example of this.

I don't think unions need to exist for us (as North Americans) to have a viable local economy 20 or 30 years from now.

Re the link to Forbes, I read that and a couple of other articles on the subject. It is my understanding that GM and Chrysler were the only companies that took a bailout for their manufacturing operations. Re the 'financing arms' ( of Toyota, Ford, BMW, etc. as well) the Fed essentially stepped in to recreate a 3rd party market for the loans as that had dried up during the credit crises. We'll never know if some other entity would have stepped in to fill that role if the fed hadn't. Re the loans to Ford for electric car research, etc., we don't know why that was something Ford was interested in. Perhaps advance knowledge of Obama's increased CAFE staandards that some feel will add at least $5,000.00 USD to each car.

Your story tugs at my heart for 2 reasons:

1 -- Your car. It is beautiful, and you should enjoy it. When I first got my DL (at age 16 + 3 months) I had a car to drive that my dad bought in case he was without a company car. It was an old first generation Firebird convertible...burgundy with a white top. Your car (as you likely realize) has some styling cues from the first generation Camaro and the first generation Firebird.

2 -- Mentioning how your daughters feel about your new car. I don't have any kids, but my cousin adopted as a single mom and she and my aunt and I traveled to bring her back to the family. We met her on what was legally her 1st birthday. A few weeks before she turned 6, she asked me if she could call me dad. I said no, you only have one parent, but you know I love you more than I have ever loved anyone. I told her I don't think I'll ever have kids, but I promised her that If I did I might love them as much as I love her, but not more. Emotionally, she is like a daughter to me. She just turned 11. I want her to have the same adventurous spirit re driving (and traveling in general) that her great grandfather had, and that her grandmother and I have. I'll be as involved in that vehicle wise (re $$...and time if desired) as her mom will allow .

Hi - a few comments. First, I think you should be commended for such a respectful, courteous reply. It's clear you feel strongly about the US assistance plan. I know this isn't a forum for political debate so I won't dwell on this, but there's a few points of which you should be aware of. In 2009, the federal government (Canada) and the provincial government of Ontario loaned GM $1.4 billion. That loan was paid back in full with interest by 2010. As for "legalities", I think we'd agree that a good lawyer can argue heads is tails and tails is heads depending on what his/her retainer is (I'm a prosecutor so I know of what I speak).

I have nothing but the utmost respect for the U.S. and the principles upon which the nation was founded. However, your nation, like most, is still struggling with what role, if any, government should play in its affairs. In the 1980s, the government of Alberta (an oil producing province) was outraged when our federal government created a national oil company and wanted to ensure Canadians were not paying more for our own oil than foreign customers. They objected to what they termed "federal government control" and wanted their own federal government to have no hand in "their" resources. In the past year, two large Canadian oil companies have been sold to the China National Offshore Oil Corporation (CNOOC), the first sale with a majority interest, the second with a 49% share because so many Canadians were outraged we were sacrificing control of our own resources to a self-professed communist state with serious questions about its commitment to fundamental human rights.

The point of this is in just over 25 years, the landscape has changed - I think our commitment to our nations and way of life has to as well. While we kick and scream at each other over what our federal political parties and own governments are doing, each day corporations that have leeched tax subsidies and resources from our "free" nations are selling our fiscal independence to entities that could give a damn about our freedoms or those of our children. I personally never saw GM or Chrysler seeking assistance in that light. I (and I'm sure you and others on this forum) know a few friends who work at GM/Ford/Chrysler dealerships. They were deathly afraid for their jobs and livelihood, but are very grateful for having pulled through.

It may well be that GM, Chrysler, Ford et al are equally brutal, selfish corporate giants that don't care about North America. After all, Chrysler is now owned by Fiat! I just think it's important that North America remains a relevant player in an enterprise so important as the auto mfg industry, and I'm not so beat up about the notion of government stepping up to defend our national interest in cases such as this. It was a loan, after all.

Finally, as for your story, I am truly touched by what you've written about the 11 year old in your life. It just goes to show that no matter how many things we point to in our lives that make us different, we have a lot more in common than we care to admit to.

Peace.