So Long All - Moving On

[fnkngrv]

At least the HB will be staying in the family :)

The new Camaros are pretty damned fun to drive too!

[edmscan]

I don't think I could ever sink low enough to buy American. Ewww .. gross.

[SeriousBlack]

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...#axzz2XBmikWZN

Think again.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by edmscan

I don't think I could ever sink low enough to buy American. Ewww .. gross.

I don['t think I could wish another Yaris owner bad luck (so, SeriousBlack, I wish you good luck with your Camaro), but I'm with you edmscan re the choice. My reason: I wouldn't buy from a company that took a bailout and also said F*** Y** to the bondholders and the rule of law, and was part and parcel (along with the POTUS, etc.) of handing the bondholder's equity to the UAW. As Harvard Professor Niall Ferguson put it, we no longer have a rule of law (that can be counted upon), we instead have a 'rule of lawyers'.

[edmscan]

In "long term reliability" the article says that GM lags behind. This is one of the reasons that I wouldn't buy American (I do agree that GM is probably the best of the American brands).

Guess seeing as how GM products just don't last as long as Japanese products, Japanese is still the way to go.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by edmscan

In "long term reliability" the article says that GM lags behind. This is one of the reasons that I wouldn't buy American (I do agree that GM is probably the best of the American brands).

Guess seeing as how GM products just don't last as long as Japanese products, Japanese is still the way to go.

Yeah, I credit Suzuki (not GM) for the reliability of my Swift....plus the fact that it was ASSEMBLED IN CANADA (not in the U.S.) with (IIRC) mostly JAPANESE parts?

[UberSilver]

Originally Posted by edmscan

(I do agree that GM is probably the best of the American brands).

Ford has left GM in the dust! going on 10 years now.

[SeriousBlack]

Wow. I'm obviously not a Toyota hater (owned - and still own - my Yaris for six years). Prior to that I've also owned a Civic, Accord, Odyssey and Lexus. I can't believe the American car haters though. Seriously?

There are 2500 workers at the Oshawa ON plant that assemble the Camaro - jobs that I understand may soon move to Michigan. Does anyone really believe letting GM go bankrupt would have been good for the auto industry and competition generally? Frankly, Honda hasn't released an inspirational design with performance to match since the S2000, and Toyota seems to have rediscovered a pulse with the FRS, thanks in part to Subaru engineering. Most of their other vehicles in the past decade have resembled cookie cutter wedges with the visual appeal of Barbra Bush in a rain coat.

I suspect a number of posters on this forum have only lived during an era when American cars were unreliable, uninspired and undesirable. For that, I suppose you could be forgiven for dumping on the US manufacturer. Times have changed. Spare me the political commentary about the validity/logic behind the "bailouts". Ford, Toyota, BMW and Harley Davidson, among others, were also the recipients of bailouts. Interestingly, as of August 2012 it was Ford that still owed bailout money though it was not as publicized as the GM and Chrysler assistance:(http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmul...-surprise-you/).

If anyone thinks a continental economy can survive without a vigorous, dynamic manufacturing sector, I have a broken three month old Toro weedwhacker made in China, purchased at Walmart, that I will sell to you.

I love driving - still love my Yaris but also love my Camaro for lots of different reasons, two of which are my daughters who love the convertible. My daughters hope to live in a North America that will still have a viable local economy 20 or 30 years from now. No apologies for trying to help that at all.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by SeriousBlack

Wow. I'm obviously not a Toyota hater (owned - and still own - my Yaris for six years). Prior to that I've also owned a Civic, Accord, Odyssey and Lexus. I can't believe the American car haters though. Seriously?

There are 2500 workers at the Oshawa ON plant that assemble the Camaro - jobs that I understand may soon move to Michigan. Does anyone really believe letting GM go bankrupt would have been good for the auto industry and competition generally? Frankly, Honda hasn't released an inspirational design with performance to match since the S2000, and Toyota seems to have rediscovered a pulse with the FRS, thanks in part to Subaru engineering. Most of their other vehicles in the past decade have resembled cookie cutter wedges with the visual appeal of Barbra Bush in a rain coat.

I suspect a number of posters on this forum have only lived during an era when American cars were unreliable, uninspired and undesirable. For that, I suppose you could be forgiven for dumping on the US manufacturer. Times have changed. Spare me the political commentary about the validity/logic behind the "bailouts". Ford, Toyota, BMW and Harley Davidson, among others, were also the recipients of bailouts. Interestingly, as of August 2012 it was Ford that still owed bailout money though it was not as publicized as the GM and Chrysler assistance:(http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmul...-surprise-you/).

If anyone thinks a continental economy can survive without a vigorous, dynamic manufacturing sector, I have a broken three month old Toro weedwhacker made in China, purchased at Walmart, that I will sell to you.

I love driving - still love my Yaris but also love my Camaro for lots of different reasons, two of which are my daughters who love the convertible. My daughters hope to live in a North America that will still have a viable local economy 20 or 30 years from now. No apologies for trying to help that at all.

I don't think you should have to take what I was mentioning into consideration when choosing a car because you are Canadian and the rule of law in your country wasn't violated as it was in mine....and your tax money didn't go to help with the subversion of those laws, my tax money did. I only asked that the rule of law be followed. That isn't a political request. Obama made it political by the favoritism that he showed to the UAW Health Plan. As Charles Lane wrote in the Washington Post, the UAW got a much better deal than it would have from a private equity firm. And yes, I think that a managed bankruptcy would have would have been better generally for competition because it would have eased the burden of union contracts. Also, the government still could have been involved money wise in a managed bankruptcy.

I don't think a continental economy can survive without a vigorous, dynamic manufacturing sector, I just think a continental economy can survive without a unionized manufacturing sector. Auto plants in Right to Work states in the US South are but one example of this.

I don't think unions need to exist for us (as North Americans) to have a viable local economy 20 or 30 years from now.

Re the link to Forbes, I read that and a couple of other articles on the subject. It is my understanding that GM and Chrysler were the only companies that took a bailout for their manufacturing operations. Re the 'financing arms' ( of Toyota, Ford, BMW, etc. as well) the Fed essentially stepped in to recreate a 3rd party market for the loans as that had dried up during the credit crises. We'll never know if some other entity would have stepped in to fill that role if the fed hadn't. Re the loans to Ford for electric car research, etc., we don't know why that was something Ford was interested in. Perhaps advance knowledge of Obama's increased CAFE staandards that some feel will add at least $5,000.00 USD to each car.

Your story tugs at my heart for 2 reasons:

1 -- Your car. It is beautiful, and you should enjoy it. When I first got my DL (at age 16 + 3 months) I had a car to drive that my dad bought in case he was without a company car. It was an old first generation Firebird convertible...burgundy with a white top. Your car (as you likely realize) has some styling cues from the first generation Camaro and the first generation Firebird.

2 -- Mentioning how your daughters feel about your new car. I don't have any kids, but my cousin adopted as a single mom and she and my aunt and I traveled to bring her back to the family. We met her on what was legally her 1st birthday. A few weeks before she turned 6, she asked me if she could call me dad. I said no, you only have one parent, but you know I love you more than I have ever loved anyone. I told her I don't think I'll ever have kids, but I promised her that If I did I might love them as much as I love her, but not more. Emotionally, she is like a daughter to me. She just turned 11. I want her to have the same adventurous spirit re driving (and traveling in general) that her great grandfather had, and that her grandmother and I have. I'll be as involved in that vehicle wise (re $$...and time if desired) as her mom will allow .

[edmscan]

Originally Posted by daf62757

Your comments about sinking low to buy American is somewhat disturbing. Is that some kind of elitist Canadian comment? Do you realize that most American cars are also Canadian too? So would you sink low enough to buy a Canadian car too?

I don't know what you are getting at but I wouldn't buy a Canadian made car either. The funny thing is that you say yourself "Nothing beats a Toyota". Why am I being criticized for preferring Japanese made cars ?

In my mind cars made in other countries still are not as reliable in the long term. (there are a few exceptions but I am not going to get into that) All I am saying is that I will not buy cars from American automakers .. as in my mind they are not as reliable. Give me a Honda or Toyota that is made in Japan any day.

[WeeYari]

Originally Posted by daf62757

Your comments about sinking low to buy American is somewhat disturbing. Is that some kind of elitist Canadian comment? Do you realize that most American cars are also Canadian too? So would you sink low enough to buy a Canadian car too?

Since the OPs Camero which is sparking all this nonsense is actually Canadian made, let's ammend edmscan's statement to a more correct North American build.

Enjoy the Camero Serious. I'm really loving the domestics going retro with the North American muscle era.

[harda toenail]

Originally Posted by fnkngrv

At least the HB will be staying in the family :)

The new Camaros are pretty damned fun to drive too!

I know! My mom has a 2012 SS Camaro. They are neat cars by all means. Her yaris is her everyday driver though lol.

And at least you are keeping the yaris for times when you need to utilize the back seat or hatch space.

I hope you are happy as can be with your new car and it puts a smile on your face every time you get in it.



Also, to people talking about american being "junk" and whatever... don't buy one. The OP bought a car he likes that makes him happy. That's what life's about.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by harda toenail

and whatever... don't buy one

If not being able to rely on the rule of law changed your world in a significant and material way, I don't think you'd be saying 'whatever'. (FWIW, I've never owned GM bonds, so it didn't change my world) It's the principle of the thing, not whether one is personally harmed or not. If the principle doesn't matter, then what is the point in having standards for anything.

[toy_toronto]

Originally Posted by harda toenail

Also, to people talking about american being "junk" and whatever... don't buy one. The OP bought a car he likes that makes him happy. That's what life's about.

^ Agreed. As they say "To each his own".

That is one nice looking ride, OP!