Tokico HTS

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Originally Posted by kngrsll

I am hoping to get Ground Control to make coilovers so any spring rate can be used.

And I would love to see a comparison on the 750-850 coilover dampers to the Tokico HTS. I think that would tell quite a story on where the price goes.

The end result will probably be very similar overall. You are talking $400 for GC coilovers at a minimum. You will also probably need to limit suspension down travel in the rear somehow to keep the rear springs from falling out. The stock struts have a lot of droop as do the HTS rear shocks.

Megans/K Sports etc aren't the best coilovers, but they are pretty decent, and will work just fine for 99% of the Yaris track dogs. The cheaper price is pretty compelling for a such a cheap vehicle.

[kngrsll]

Originally Posted by largeorangefont

The end result will probably be very similar overall. You are talking $400 for GC coilovers at a minimum. You will also probably need to limit suspension down travel in the rear somehow to keep the rear springs from falling out. The stock struts have a lot of droop as do the HTS rear shocks.

Megans/K Sports etc aren't the best coilovers, but they are pretty decent, and will work just fine for 99% of the Yaris track dogs. The cheaper price is pretty compelling for a such a cheap vehicle.

Most of the fast Honda track/autox cars ive seen in my experience were using the GC/Koni set up. The HTS are just as good if not better than the OTS yellows, so there is a ton of potential. Will that level of suspension quality matter to most owners? Apparently not, its more about saving $400 than about picking the pieces that can really maximize the cars potential in competition (that have ACTUAL dyno graphs with adjustablity that does what it is supposed to.) Granted, most yaris owners are not going to take their cars to nationals, regionals, or try to win SCCA autoxs or time trial, but to me, id rather fork out the extra $400 for components i trust.

For example, i used to have a 240sx that was built like your typical tuner car. Lots of bracing, big brake kit, adjustable arms, big wheels, and D2 coilovers. So i autox'd a few times and really got interested in it. A guy i started hanging out with gave me some advice, build your car to fit a class and maximize its potential instead of throwing random parts at it that you dont know how to adjust. So i sold the big brakes, sold the braces and arms, and used that money to buy slicks, bushings, and driving time at autox and track days. The car drove so much better! With a proper alignment at a race shop with settings derived for performance driving, i was now winning autox's regularly (in my class of course lol.) The next big crux? The cheapo D2 coilovers. I got rid of them to run koni yellows and GC's, and again the same result. The car improved ALOT. The dampers actually worked, they actually responded to adjustment as well! I nearly won a regional event, and a i made a former national champion mad bc i was so close to his time and i was just so no name kid who had gotten good advice and listened to it. So the moral of the story is, if you want to race and compete, you really need to think about the parts you select. I have applied those lessons to my newest car and its gone very well. It is well balanced, great to drive, and easy to maintain. My first mod was an a custom alignment which made a massive difference. The next mod was the springs, which didnt really change anything bc they were near stock rates. The final mod was the dampers/rear sway bar which really changed the car. It is an amazing little machine to drive now...

Im not saying the ebay coilovers have their place. If you really want to slam your car for cheap, they are great. If you want to race at a high level of competition, i dont think they are going to cut it.

so overall, i guess i do agree with you... but it still makes me frustrated lol

[largeorangefont]

Originally Posted by kngrsll

Most of the fast Honda track/autox cars ive seen in my experience were using the GC/Koni set up. The HTS are just as good if not better than the OTS yellows, so there is a ton of potential. Will that level of suspension quality matter to most owners? Apparently not, its more about saving $400 than about picking the pieces that can really maximize the cars potential in competition (that have ACTUAL dyno graphs with adjustablity that does what it is supposed to.) Granted, most yaris owners are not going to take their cars to nationals, regionals, or try to win SCCA autoxs or time trial, but to me, id rather fork out the extra $400 for components i trust.

For example, i used to have a 240sx that was built like your typical tuner car. Lots of bracing, big brake kit, adjustable arms, big wheels, and D2 coilovers. So i autox'd a few times and really got interested in it. A guy i started hanging out with gave me some advice, build your car to fit a class and maximize its potential instead of throwing random parts at it that you dont know how to adjust. So i sold the big brakes, sold the braces and arms, and used that money to buy slicks, bushings, and driving time at autox and track days. The car drove so much better! With a proper alignment at a race shop with settings derived for performance driving, i was now winning autox's regularly (in my class of course lol.) The next big crux? The cheapo D2 coilovers. I got rid of them to run koni yellows and GC's, and again the same result. The car improved ALOT. The dampers actually worked, they actually responded to adjustment as well! I nearly won a regional event, and a i made a former national champion mad bc i was so close to his time and i was just so no name kid who had gotten good advice and listened to it. So the moral of the story is, if you want to race and compete, you really need to think about the parts you select. I have applied those lessons to my newest car and its gone very well. It is well balanced, great to drive, and easy to maintain. My first mod was an a custom alignment which made a massive difference. The next mod was the springs, which didnt really change anything bc they were near stock rates. The final mod was the dampers/rear sway bar which really changed the car. It is an amazing little machine to drive now...

Im not saying the ebay coilovers have their place. If you really want to slam your car for cheap, they are great. If you want to race at a high level of competition, i dont think they are going to cut it.

so overall, i guess i do agree with you... but it still makes me frustrated lol

And I agree with you. I'm not knocking you, running GC sleeves would be a great setup if they made them, or you could get something to work.

You know as well as I do that 99% of Yaris owners aren't going to spend the extra cash to have such a setup however.

A correctly valved Koni/HTS etc. with a coilover sleeve setup will outperform a "cheap" coilover kits in most (if not all) cases. Some of the "cheap" coilover kits are obviously better than others. Unfortunately, Yaris owners don't have many choices for "stiff" coilover setups.

I'm leaving the Teins out purposely because they are more for street performance.

In this case you are talking a 30% price difference minimum between the two setups. I don't think that a HTS/GC setup would end up being 30% better than K sport coilovers for instance.

Generally speaking, I dont think there is anything wrong with a GOOD "cheap" coilover (Stance, BC, etc.) As I said, some are better than others. D2s would not be on my "good" list from what I have seen of them.

I have experience with both types of setups. I have custom valved Bilsteins with coilover sleeves on my Mustang Cobra. I like the setup a lot, and I am as fast or faster than many EVOs and STIs on technical tracks.

I have BC coilovers on my RX7, which is primeraly a track car. I have been very satisfied with the coilovers. Out of the box they sucked, and were extremely stiff. Once I set the damping correctly, The car handled and drove much better, and rides well considering the spring rates. It took about 20 minutes driving around do get them dialed in. Again, I'm not going for SCCA Run off status here, but I was faced with the same issue. $1200+ for Konis and GC sleeves, or get a coilover kit for $800. I rode in cars with the Konis and the feel was similar. I could see the Koni's being more consistent near the limit, but at this point it was not worth the extra 30% price.

I think the main problem with the "cheap" coilovers is that they have so many damping settings people never get them set up correctly, and dont get the settings balanced from front to rear, or they get rediculously stiff springs.