SS Brake Line + Brake Pad + Rotor Installed~

[Loren]

Originally Posted by Kongo-Otto

Porsche brake discs are not drilled. If i only knew the word in english. The holes are made different, they are part of the production progress but not drilled later.

Correct, the holes are cast into the brake rotor at the time of manufacture.

[eii]

Did you reuse your stock shims on your break pads?

[AlainMikli]

Originally Posted by eii

Did you reuse your stock shims on your break pads?

Yes I did, perfect fitment on the Carbotech.

[AlainMikli]

Sure I have bleed the lines!

Thanks Loren, very detail explanation

[CB900F2]

AlainMikli.. Hows your long term results of the SS lines been like?... I am in the works of pickup a set myself..

thanks for your feedback..

[Loren]

I'm not going to argue with you guys, but I'll tell you that I take most of my information from reliable sources. I consider a brake system engineer who also has experience building race cars and racing is pretty high on my list of reliable sources for brake info.

Here's what James Walker (I'm pretty sure he knows more about brakes than any of the rest of us do) has to say about brake rotors:
http://www.teamscr.com/motorsports/t...or-rotors.html

[supmet]

Originally Posted by Loren

I'm not going to argue with you guys, but I'll tell you that I take most of my information from reliable sources. I consider a brake system engineer who also has experience building race cars and racing is pretty high on my list of reliable sources for brake info.

Here's what James Walker (I'm pretty sure he knows more about brakes than any of the rest of us do) has to say about brake rotors:
http://www.teamscr.com/motorsports/t...or-rotors.html

Originally Posted by http://www.teamscr.com/about-james-walker-jr/about-james-walker-jr.html

In addition, since 2001 he has served as a brake control system consultant for StopTech,

Originally Posted by http://www.stoptech.com/Products/rotors.shtml

AeroRotors are available either drilled or slotted.

Drilling or slotting helps wipe away the debris that forms between the pad and the disc, adds more bite, and can help the rear brakes to match the aesthetics of a front big brake kit.

I guess the company he is a consultant for doesn't buy into his hate of drilling rotors.



Oh and his ONLY argument(not just stating random facts he holds as truths) was that nascar and f1 cars don't use drilled brakes. Because, you know, the average car driver has a couple grand to spend on carbon fiber brakes, and replace them everytime they drive the car. Also, an engineer should realize the orders of magnitude of difference in the forces braking from 220 and braking from 120. But lets compare apples to oranges.(and do it multiple times in a one page article).

I passed a dinan bmw with slotted rotors and a carrera s with drilled going in to the store today. The ferrari 430 challenge came with drilled rotors one year. I'm gonna take the word of ferrari, dinan, and porsche over this random guy.

...(runs off to buy a fire suit and helmet, because if NASCAR does it, well by golly I'm gonna do it)

[dallas]

I have to agree with Loren on this one, if you slot and cross drill a basically stock rotor you reduce the mass of the rotor, which in-turn gives you less of a heat sink.
There is no off gassing of new compound pads, the slots may help with brake dust evacuation, but thats about it. When you see a slotted and drilled pad on an exotic sports car, they have made sure to also have enough rotor mass to allow a big enough heat sink for the type of driving being encountered. I would focus on new brake fluid, A Racing specific or Dot 5.1 for street applications and get good pads and stainless lines.
Cheers.

Originally Posted by Loren

I'm not going to argue with you guys, but I'll tell you that I take most of my information from reliable sources. I consider a brake system engineer who also has experience building race cars and racing is pretty high on my list of reliable sources for brake info.

Here's what James Walker (I'm pretty sure he knows more about brakes than any of the rest of us do) has to say about brake rotors:
http://www.teamscr.com/motorsports/t...or-rotors.html

[kngrsll]

supposedly the slots help vent trapped gasses as well...

im curious to know what these do... iknow they work, and work very well. hell, it may just be a pure marketing thing. but if this isnt car porn, i dunno what is:

[cali yaris]

HTM, that is how I have my front rotors oriented as well.

[eii]

Ok cool, thanks for the info. I just bought some carbotechs from garm as well, but I'm too sick to work on my car right now :'(

[HTM Yaris]

Hey Loren , no harm , no foul . I love a civilized discussion . On that note , let me point out some of the fallacies in Mr. Walker's thinking .

Mr Walker states that holes were developed to eliminate gassing . I can buy that . Mr Walker fails to mention that holes evacuate dust quicker ( which is also the reason for the slot on most brake pads ,which he fails to mention ) , which in turn increases coefficient of friction . Mr Walker goes on to mention that if weight is removed from the rotor that heat can increase a "little" , but he fails to mention how long that "little" bit of heat is sustained . He goes on to mention the "cheese grater" effect . This is another half truth . When a crack develops there is only a 50% chance that a grater effect will occur . If the leading edge of the crack is raised , then it effectively becomes a slot . As I stated previously if you have a large crack or a crack to the outer edge , I highly recommend a rotor replacement because your structural integrity is compromised . Mr Walker also didn't take into account that Nascar and F1 don't allow holes . Not to mention that Nascar and F1 use carbon rotors . He also doesn't mention the inconsistencies of the casting process as opposed to the machining process that produce exact tolerances , which Nascar and F1 use .

I laughed my ass off when I read the "Too Cool" segment . Everybody knows that when you freeze something the molecules will draw closer together and then when you heat it up it will revert back to its previous state . This is easily proven with water . Think ice cubes . Sometimes water expands because air gets trapped . I feel certain that the people at the testing facility laughed all the way to the bank .
In my opinion Mr Walker needs to refine his research methods and offer more conclusive objective data . But on the other hand , I don't offer any data either . Just simple logic and my own personal experiences . Which by the way are not for profit .
I could go on and on but my GF wants to apply some friction principles of our own .

[Loren]

What do you guys not understand about "I'm not going to argue with you?"

My most compelling reason for "hating" cross-drilled rotors is simply having seen with my own two eyes far too many of them CRACKED at track events. Given the choice between driving on a race track with a rotor that's likely to crack and one that isn't, I'm going to choose the one that isn't. I'm funny that way.

Y'all can continue arguing amongst yourselves.

[supmet]

Originally Posted by Loren

What do you guys not understand about "I'm not going to argue with you?"

My most compelling reason for "hating" cross-drilled rotors is simply having seen with my own two eyes far too many of them CRACKED at track events. Given the choice between driving on a race track with a rotor that's likely to crack and one that isn't, I'm going to choose the one that isn't. I'm funny that way.

Y'all can continue arguing amongst yourselves.

I'm still debating/arguing, because I respect your opinion, and have drilled rotors. I come off snide, but that's just to make it fun For the race track, you are probably right. But for street or auto-x use, I really do think they dump heat faster(leading to better brake performance and longer lasting pads and rotors), clear dust, are slightly lighter, and yes - they look better. Plus you can get a pair for $110 from garm, or one stock rotor for $96 from the dealer. I think they are the best bang for the buck rotors for performance and longevity. As far as cracking, I'll never put as much heat in to them as fast as I did when I bed my pads again. If they took that they should be good.

I would be interested in some hard testing of the same rotor, same car, drilled and not, infrared thermometer mounted in the wheel well. Surely with some companies making claims of 200 degrees in difference there would be some, but I'm finding it extremely hard to find.

[cali yaris]

People that know better than me say that it doesn't matter at all which way the slots are oriented. The slots are to keep the pad surface clean and "cut", not to help cool the rotor.

[jaytown]

Does any one know who has the Goodridge brakelines in stock?

[ozmdd]

Not going to get into the drill/not drilled debate, but I can tell you from a physics standpoint, the drilled rotors will have less braking surface area, and less mass to absorb heat. The holes will not cool the inner rotor any faster, as the front rotors are already vented at the perimeter.
The rotor will have less rotational mass if it is drilled/slotted.

[cali yaris]

jaytown, I have Agency-Power lines in stock.