SS Brake Line + Brake Pad + Rotor Installed~

[AlainMikli]

Installed Today:

Goodridge Stainless Steal Brake Lines (Front & Rear)

CarboTech brake pads + Drilled+Slotted Rotors (fron Garm)

Now, I really feel I'm stopping when I step the brake pedal

[CB900F2]

Great looking lines..

How much firmer do you find the peddle? How much did the kit cost?

Thanks

[Brian]

Do your rear lines go all the way to the rear brakes? Look kind of short to me.

[AlainMikli]

Originally Posted by CB900F2

Great looking lines..

How much firmer do you find the peddle? How much did the kit cost?

Thanks

Um...before I step around 70% of the peddle to stop in some normal speed(local stop sign & traffic light) and takes a long time to stop.
now, I only step 40% to stop my car effectively.

In some highway at 60-70mph, I have to down shift to 3rd gear in order to stop for a traffic light, now I can stop at 4th even 5th gear in the same length & time.

Plus, 2 of my usual passenger say the same thing, before they felt I stop the car very very soft & take a long time to stop it, however they can tell when I step on the peddle right now

$120 for the goodridge ss brake line

Originally Posted by vten

nice work Him ....

did you have to bleed the lines ? how to do it ?? my brakes setup are still waiting to be install ....and so does my exhaust ....

thanks Tan

what are you going to have on your brake setup?

[staticorex]

Nice. But I'd like to see pics with the rotors on.

[AlainMikli]

Originally Posted by staticorex

Nice. But I'd like to see pics with the rotors on.

Sure, I'll post some after I wash my car today

[staticorex]

Woot. :p

[Tamago]

why is the tab on your camber bolt pointing down instead of in?

[vten]

nice work Him ....

did you have to bleed the lines ? how to do it ?? my brakes setup are still waiting to be install ....and so does my exhaust ....

[Loren]

Of course you have to bleed the lines!

Couple thoughts on this brake setup. First, as the OP said, he FEELS like he's stopping when he steps on the brakes. Now, in reality, that's all it is. "Feel". The factory brakes might not give you the ultimate in "feel", but they WILL stop the car as quickly as the TIRES are capable of. Any other brake setup you put on the car isn't going to stop the car any faster with the same tires.

I'm not saying the feel isn't good or important, though. The SS lines reduce the amount of give in the hydraulic system, which can directly be felt in the brake pedal as less movement. The brakes will actuate quicker and respond to your inputs under threshold braking a little better. (IF you have the skills to take advantage of it) And the Carbotech pads will likely grab a little better when cold and a LOT better when hot, which is most of the difference that you can feel. The result of that is more braking with less pedal effort. Not "more braking", really... just "less effort".

The main reason to upgrade brakes from a performance aspect is so they'll handle more heat. This is the biggest thing that the Carbotech pads will do for you. In a track environment where you're making repeated decelerations from high speed, the stock pads will fade pretty quickly. A good pad like the Carbotech will take a lot more heat before it begins to fade. Good stuff... if you go to the track.

BUT... if you go to the track, please don't use those drilled rotors! They're fine for the street, but I can't tell you how many drilled rotors I've seen at race tracks with CRACKS in them. In street driving, we don't normally get our brakes super-hot, and it's not a problem. But, in racing, we DO get the brakes really hot, and those holes in the rotor create weak areas that are an invitation for a crack to begin.

Bottom line: Great setup for street, looks good. Will "feel" better, and will offer a little more resistance to occasional mild heat fade. But, for the track... leave the blingy rotors and get some solid rotors. They'll dissipate heat better and they won't be prone to cracking.

[supmet]

Originally Posted by Loren

They'll dissipate heat better and they won't be prone to cracking.

I really don't see how something with more mass and less surface area will dissipate heat better than something with less mass and more surface area. As far as cracking, I don't understand why 911 turbos, skylines, and other 400-500 hp cars can run with drilled rotors stopping their much heavier, much faster cars without cracking. I'm pretty sure these will hold up for a 2 minute auto cross run just fine.

Also, with the stock rotors and pads I had problems with glazing the pads and warping the rotors. So far the R1 drilled and slotted rotors and carbotech pads have lasted longer than stock ever did, and they still look pretty much new.

[Loren]

Originally Posted by supmet

I really don't see how something with more mass and less surface area will dissipate heat better than something with less mass and more surface area.

The holes in brake rotors have NOTHING to do with surface area. They don't have anything to do with cooling, either. Their original purpose was to give the gasses produced by old-school brake pads (that haven't been used in over 40 years) someplace to go. Now, they're almost entirely there because folks think they look cool. They do add a bit of lightness, that's about their only true benefit.

More mass in a brake rotor allows them to absorb more heat over a longer period of time. Talk to Spec Miata racers about brakes. A lot of those guys run the smaller 1.6 Miata brake rotors because they're lighter and every little bit helps. BUT... they can tell the difference between a NEW full-thickness (and thus full mass) rotor and one that is worn down to its service limit. A new full-thickness rotor (with more mass) will dissipate more heat and resist fade longer than it's thinner cousin.

As far as cracking, I don't understand why 911 turbos, skylines, and other 400-500 hp cars can run with drilled rotors stopping their much heavier, much faster cars without cracking. I'm pretty sure these will hold up for a 2 minute auto cross run just fine.

The reason they HAVE the cross-drilled rotors is purely bling. People like you EXPECT them to have it... just like the ridiculously large and heavy wheels that are popular these days. The reason they work on those cars is equally simple. The engineers who designed the car over-engineered the braking system to prevent heat-related problems. This is a wildly different concept than taking an economy car like a Yaris and simply fitting a set of rotors that someone has taken to a drill-press. (and don't assume that there's much more involved in making these rotors than that... there isn't... most aftermarket cross-drilled rotors begin with a standard blank)

Holding up for a 2-minute autocross run? I never said ANY brake system wouldn't do that! I said "race track". I'm talking about lap after lap of braking from 90-50, from 70-30, from 80-40... over and over. I'm NOT making this up, I've seen cracked drilled brake rotors at race tracks on everything from Porsches and Audis to Mustangs.

Also, with the stock rotors and pads I had problems with glazing the pads and warping the rotors. So far the R1 drilled and slotted rotors and carbotech pads have lasted longer than stock ever did, and they still look pretty much new.

Did you ever try just the Carbotech pads with the stock rotors? Hmmm?

[Brian]

What about just slotted rotors as oppossed to cross drilled and slotted? Any difference there?

[Loren]

Originally Posted by Brian

What about just slotted rotors as oppossed to cross drilled and slotted? Any difference there?

Not as likely to crack, but no real benefit. Again, trying to address the outgassing issue that modern brake pads don't have. They do tend to act as a cheese grater and wear your pads quicker, though.

[Tamago]

Originally Posted by supmet

Also, with the stock rotors and pads I had problems with glazing the pads and warping the rotors. So far the R1 drilled and slotted rotors and carbotech pads have lasted longer than stock ever did, and they still look pretty much new.

warping the rotors will relate directly back to poor braking habits.

[supmet]

Originally Posted by Loren

The holes in brake rotors have NOTHING to do with surface area. They don't have anything to do with cooling, either. Their original purpose was to give the gasses produced by old-school brake pads (that haven't been used in over 40 years) someplace to go. Now, they're almost entirely there because folks think they look cool. They do add a bit of lightness, that's about their only true benefit.

I'm not talking about pad to rotor surface area - that is actually decreased. The entire surface area of the rotor is increased, allowing air to touch more hot metal, taking more heat. It also allows cooling of the center of the rotor, where an undrilled rotor only cools the outsides.

Originally Posted by Loren

More mass in a brake rotor allows them to absorb more heat over a longer period of time.

There you go. More mass = bigger thermal sink. It can absorb heat over a longer period of time, and dissipate that heat over a longer period of time as well, not faster.

Originally Posted by Loren

Holding up for a 2-minute autocross run? I never said ANY brake system wouldn't do that! I said "race track". I'm talking about lap after lap of braking from 90-50, from 70-30, from 80-40... over and over. I'm NOT making this up, I've seen cracked drilled brake rotors at race tracks on everything from Porsches and Audis to Mustangs.

Well I guess we can both agree that if someone is going to turn their yaris into a full blown race car, they should spend more than 100 dollars on rotors.

Originally Posted by Loren

Did you ever try just the Carbotech pads with the stock rotors? Hmmm?

Considering I had turned or replaced the stock rotors every 10,000 miles, and the R1 drilled and slotted rotors are roughly 1/2 the price of OEM, I didn't feel like gambling. I'm at 15k on the drilled with no problems.

Originally Posted by Tamago

warping the rotors will relate directly back to poor braking habits.

Or an automatic transmission and driving lots of hills. I constantly find myself choosing between overreving the transmission with limiting, or having no engine braking power and relying on my brakes for long steep hills. I choose a brake job over a new transmission. I'm sure if I lived in florida, your blanket statement would apply though. My corolla's brakes lasted three times as long with worse driving habits and driving in the same area. My current set up, if I had to estimate, looks like it will last somewhere between four and five times as long. So whether or not my braking habits are poor or not, these rotors seem to be holding up better.


edit: oh but the bling is totally why I bought them. All the people that pass within 3 feet and catch just the right angle looking through the little hole in my steelies drool in envy of my drilled goodness.

[HTM Yaris]

I have to agree with Supmet . D/S rotors do dissipate heat better . More air to more surface area = more cooling . Thats the whole theory behind vented rotors . As far as D/S rotors chewing up pads like cheese graters , false . For your rotors to be grated there would have to be a trailing edge that is raised . ( Go check your kitchen drawer ) . Carbotech pads will decrease the life of your rotors simply b/c they are harder and will grind away more material . Carbotech pads do take longer to heat up which in turn helps the seals in your calipers from melting and also helps to keep your brake fluid from boiling as quickly .

Cracks form from a combination of circumstances . The main one being from a manufacturing defect . When you cast anything , it is virtually impossible to obtain an even thickness throughout . Combine this defect with some heat and poor braking habits and viola ...a crack will raise its ugly head . If there is one crack ( from hole to hole ) that rotor is still usable but you would be wise to monitor for more cracks . I've seen many people do this ( On track ) . If a crack extends from hole to hole to hole , then you need to trash that rotor . If a crack extends from the outer hole to the outer edge then you will get a cheese grater effect from the warpage that will follow .

Speaking about on track , I have used the R-1 rotors on track ( against R-1's advice) and they work pretty darn good . The last time I went to Roebling Road . We did 100 + consecutive laps . The Yaris did come in the pits for driver changes but the car never shut off . We experienced no brake problems . Actually the Pros who drove my car said the brakes were surprisingly good . ( I'll get to my secret in a minute ) . We tried our darndest to find a flaw anywhere in the car . The only one we found was lack of power . But the R-1's did glaze up in the mountains . Which is why I bought new rotors from brake warehouse . The R-1's are still good but just wanted to try something else .

My brake setup is as follows : Toyota pads , Brake Warehouse rotors , SS lines and ATE Blue fluid . Check the pics below . On the car are the BW rotors . On the ground are the R-1 rotors . Check out the differences . The R-1's have bigger holes and slightly longer slots . The R-1's also have the hole closer to the outer edge . The BW rotors have 2 rows of holes between the slots . The BW have a powder coated hub/hat . The R-1's were zinc plated in its entirety . Both have pointed end slots .

The things I don't like about the R-1's are that they took longer to bed in b/c on the zinc plating and they glazed in the mountains ( after turning a pretty shade of blue ) . With a good bit of fade

What I like about the BW rotors is that there are more holes , albeit smaller than the R-1's , and the holes are not so close to the outer edge . I also like the powder coating on the hub/hat area . The rust doesn't "bleed" through like they do on the R-1's . I've gotten these rotors a nice crimson color in the mountains with no adverse affects Just a tiny bit of fade .

Now for my trick . Notice the R-1s . The one on the right is how everybody else installs their rotors . The holes are slanted towards the rear of the car . The one on the left are slanted towards the front of the car . My theory is that with the holes slanted forward it allows the outer edge to cool first after leaving the pad area thereby producing more consistent results after repeated use . The pros who have driven my car all say the can't believe how consistent my brakes are especially with stock pads . Then I point out my rotor orientation and they go "Hmm interesting" .

6 hours have elapsed since I started this reply to the time I posted . ( GF's Mini broke and I had to go and fix it , Tranny and flat tire ) So I probably missed a few replies .

[Kongo-Otto]

Originally Posted by supmet

I don't understand why 911 turbos, skylines, and other 400-500 hp cars can run with drilled rotors stopping their much heavier, much faster cars without cracking. I'm pretty sure these will hold up for a 2 minute auto cross run just fine.

Porsche brake discs are not drilled. If i only knew the word in english. The holes are made different, they are part of the production progress but not drilled later.