Max Speed in Each Gear for 5 speed man. Yaris with no tach??

[grampi]

Originally Posted by ddongbap

Because you simply don't need a tach to drive. Auto or manual.

I disagree. I think if you have a manual tranny you need a tach.

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

Originally Posted by grampi

I disagree. I think if you have a manual tranny you need a tach.

DON'T NEED NO STINKiN TACH, ive gotten used to listening to my motor......

[justjesus]

Originally Posted by ROCKLAND TOYOTA

DON'T NEED NO STINKiN TACH, ive gotten used to listening to my motor......

LOL - my friend is trying to convince me to get a tach. I tells him i don't needs it, so whatever! you don't NEED a tach when driving a manual. If it was truly NEEDED, Toyota would have installed it.

As for PK's (?) numbers being different from the owner's manual... well, that was just HIS preference. We all shift at different speeds. Also, i believe the original queston (sort of, as it was more like TWO parts) was...
I'd like to know how fast I can go in each gear in order to achieve maximum acceleration.

You wont achieve max accel from redlining these motors.

[09TRD]

Originally Posted by justjesus

LOL - my friend is trying to convince me to get a tach. I tells him i don't needs it, so whatever! you don't NEED a tach when driving a manual. If it was truly NEEDED, Toyota would have installed it.

As for PK's (?) numbers being different from the owner's manual... well, that was just HIS preference. We all shift at different speeds. Also, i believe the original queston (sort of, as it was more like TWO parts) was...

You can use the speedometer as an indicator for red-line in each gear, which is the point of this thread.

I put little marks on the face of the speedometer on my 1997 Tacoma 2wd. I used the stick on "pin striping" tape that I bought for a couple of bucks somewhere. I marked it per the "maximum shift points" in the owner's manual. It worked fine.

[justjesus]

Originally Posted by 09TRD

You can use the speedometer as an indicator for red-line in each gear, which is the point of this thread.

I put little marks on the face of the speedometer on my 1997 Tacoma 2wd. I used the stick on "pin striping" tape that I bought for a couple of bucks somewhere.

not a bad idea, the pin striping.

Oh, also. I believe the manual calls for 1,000 MILES break in distance. The sad part, they mention, is you can't just take a long drive, or keep it at certain speed for "extended periods" or something like that. So my idea of a Vegas trip to break it in was thrown out the window. booooo. LOL

[09TRD]

Originally Posted by justjesus

You wont achieve max accel from redlining these motors.

I'd love to see you prove that empirically.

Peak HP occurs at 6,000 RPM. Redline occurs at 6,500 RPM.

You'll want to shift at or near red-line for peak performance, even though engine horsepower falls off after 6,000 RPM. Why? Because doing so will put the engine closer to its horsepower peak in the next gear (immediately after the up-shift) while ensuring peak obtainable drive-wheel torque at all vehicle speeds.

Precise shift points would be determined in the fashion discussed in this link:

http://www.allpar.com/eek/hp-vs-torque.html

Generally speaking, shifting at red-line is a good "rule of thumb" for maximizing acceleration. That tends to be especially true for higher revving, small displacement DOHC engines (e.g. Yaris engine).

I've been told that the Yaris's owner's manual recommends the following shift points for maximum acceleration:

1 to 2: 31 MPH

2 to 3: 59 MPH

3 to 4: 86 MPH

Assuming that's true, I suspect that each of those shift points corresponds to engine red-line in the Yaris models equipped with tachs.

[09TRD]

Originally Posted by PK198105

if you like i could scan the page relating to this from the actual manual. let me know.

as for max power best way would be to do a dyno run and see the RPMs at which power peaks, Garm i believe has acces to a dyno

Please scan that page of the manual if you don't mind.


Peak power (106 HP @ the flywheel) occurs at 6,000 RPM - just like Toyota says it does. Peak power will be less when measured on a chassis dyno, though the RPM at which it occurs will be identical.

That says little about determining shift points for optimal acceleration, though, as explained here:

http://www.allpar.com/eek/hp-vs-torque.html

Generally speaking, one wants to shift at engine red-line (ABOVE PEAK HP RPM) in order to maximize acceleration. That's particularly true with "peaky," small displacement, DOHC engines (e.g. Yaris 1.5 liter).

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

Originally Posted by 09TRD

Peak power (106 HP @ the flywheel) occurs at 6,000 RPM - just like Toyota says it does. That says little about determining shift points for optimal acceleration, though, as explained here:

http://www.allpar.com/eek/hp-vs-torque.html

Generally speaking, one wants to shift at engine red-line (ABOVE PEAK HP RPM) in order to maximize acceleration. That's particularly true with "peaky," small displacement, DOHC engines (e.g. Yaris 1.5 liter).

i have no tach and hence rely on engine sound so i can attest to to the claim about peak power. i say this cause when i shift at redline i notice a slight bog in power but when i shift JUST before im spinning 18inch tires in second gear and third doesn't have that lag you get around 60 mph........

[09TRD]

Originally Posted by ROCKLAND TOYOTA

i have no tach and hence rely on engine sound so i can attest to to the claim about peak power. i say this cause when i shift at redline i notice a slight bog in power but when i shift JUST before im spinning 18inch tires in second gear and third doesn't have that lag you get around 60 mph........

How does the rolling diameter of 18" set-up compare with the OEM set-up?

If it's off, indicated speed will differ from actual speed.

[justjesus]

Originally Posted by 09TRD

I'd love to see you prove that empirically.

Peak HP occurs at 6,000 RPM. Redline occurs at 6,500 RPM.

You'll want to shift at or near red-line for peak performance, even though engine horsepower falls off after 6,000 RPM. Why? Because doing so will put the engine closer to its horsepower peak in the next gear (immediately after the up-shift) while ensuring peak obtainable drive-wheel torque at all vehicle speeds.

Precise shift points would be determined in the fashion discussed in this link:

http://www.allpar.com/eek/hp-vs-torque.html

Generally speaking, shifting at red-line is a good "rule of thumb" for maximizing acceleration. That tends to be especially true for higher revving, small displacement DOHC engines (e.g. Yaris engine).

I've been told that the Yaris's owner's manual recommends the following shift points for maximum acceleration:

1 to 2: 31 MPH
2 to 3: 59 MPH
3 to 4: 86 MPH

.

And I'd love to prove it as well. If i had easier access to a track, I'd do it. Would you settle for a measured distance (1/4 mile) vs time (stopwatch)?

It's nice to have peak HP so close to redline, as it makes your point that much easier to work with. And, for most people (as well as the common point of view), shifting at redline would be best.

[PaidTimeOff]

Originally Posted by grampi

I disagree. I think if you have a manual tranny you need a tach.

Well, you clearly don't NEED a tach, as people have been driving manual transmission vehicles without tachs for decades. Hell, even the manual 1997 Ford Escort I drive for work doesn't have a tach and it's still going strong after more than a decade of use. You may WANT a tach so you can see your revs, but it's definitely not required to effectively drive a manual transmission car.

[grampi]

Originally Posted by PaidTimeOff

Well, you clearly don't NEED a tach, as people have been driving manual transmission vehicles without tachs for decades. Hell, even the manual 1997 Ford Escort I drive for work doesn't have a tach and it's still going strong after more than a decade of use. You may WANT a tach so you can see your revs, but it's definitely not required to effectively drive a manual transmission car.

You're not doing much to help me make my argument. I know you don't NEED a tach to drive a manual, but isn't having one nice? It isn't asking that much for Toyota to quit being so damn cheap and just include one in the base Yaris. They're already selling these cars for a much higher price than they should be. It isn't like Toyota isn't going to make a profit on these cars if the included a tach.

[09TRD]

Originally Posted by grampi

You're not doing much to help me make my argument. I know you don't NEED a tach to drive a manual, but isn't having one nice? It isn't asking that much for Toyota to quit being so damn cheap and just include one in the base Yaris. They're already selling these cars for a much higher price than they should be. It isn't like Toyota isn't going to make a profit on these cars if the included a tach.

It's "nice" to have leather seats, 300 HP, AWD, a power moon-roof, etc.

Right?

But I think the base Yaris's equipment level is FINE for its price level.

Get one of the higher trim levels if you want a tach.

Or buy a tach and install it.

[PaidTimeOff]

Originally Posted by grampi

You're not doing much to help me make my argument. I know you don't NEED a tach to drive a manual, but isn't having one nice? It isn't asking that much for Toyota to quit being so damn cheap and just include one in the base Yaris. They're already selling these cars for a much higher price than they should be. It isn't like Toyota isn't going to make a profit on these cars if the included a tach.

If to you it's too much money for what you get, then don't buy it. Toyota cut a few bucks off their production costs by not including the tach in lower models. The lack of a tachometer also motivates buyers to upgrade to the higher level lb if they really want it. Sounds like good business to me.

[grampi]

Originally Posted by PaidTimeOff

If to you it's too much money for what you get, then don't buy it. Toyota cut a few bucks off their production costs by not including the tach in lower models. The lack of a tachometer also motivates buyers to upgrade to the higher level lb if they really want it. Sounds like good business to me.

You shouldn't have to buy the most expensive trim level just to get a tach. At the very least, it should be available as a stand alone option.

[PaidTimeOff]

Originally Posted by grampi

You shouldn't have to buy the most expensive trim level just to get a tach. At the very least, it should be available as a stand alone option.

But you see how it's a good business decision on Toyota's part, correct? You think you shouldn't have to buy the highest trim for the tach. I think my lowest priced Playstation 3 should have a memory stick slot, which they offer on the higher model. They could easily just add it on since they offer it on the top model, but I bought the "base" model and was well aware that the slot would not be included and was not an option, just as you were aware they didn't offer the tach on the sub-S models. I can add the slot later using a USB adapter, just as you are able to add an aftermarket tach to the Yaris after purchase.

Not including the tach on the lower models entices buyers to upgrade to the S model. I already wanted the S model, but once I heard the S model of the liftback was the only one that had the tach, I was sold. This is not a bait and switch, certain models only offer certain options. I'm sure there are plenty of people that wanted S-style seats in their base Yarises, but that's not an option. It's only available in the S model.

You know what they offered, they don't hold a gun to your head telling you you need to buy the S. They tell you what you can get, then leave the decision up to you.

[ddongbap]

Originally Posted by grampi

You're not doing much to help me make my argument. I know you don't NEED a tach to drive a manual, but isn't having one nice? It isn't asking that much for Toyota to quit being so damn cheap and just include one in the base Yaris. They're already selling these cars for a much higher price than they should be. It isn't like Toyota isn't going to make a profit on these cars if the included a tach.

I've been through this argument with many others. I'll go over it with you.

Toyota didn't include a tach, to provide a super cheap ass Yaris. Want a tach? Get a S model. Still don't like it? Get a Fit.

Earlier you had stated that you NEED a tach for a manual transmission, but now you're saying,

=grampi]I know you don't NEED a tach to drive a manual,

Its bad enough Toyota isn't making much on these cars anyways. Toyota obviously doesn't care about the Yaris, as they do the other models. There's nearly no Yaris commercials anymore.

[grampi]

Originally Posted by ddongbap

I've been through this argument with many others. I'll go over it with you.

Toyota didn't include a tach, to provide a super cheap ass Yaris. Want a tach? Get a S model. Still don't like it? Get a Fit.

Earlier you had stated that you NEED a tach for a manual transmission, but now you're saying,



Its bad enough Toyota isn't making much on these cars anyways. Toyota obviously doesn't care about the Yaris, as they do the other models. There's nearly no Yaris commercials anymore.

I'm not buying that Toyota isn't making much money on the Yaris. It can't cost Toyota much more than $8K to put a Yaris on the Dealer's lot, and yet Toyota can't keep them on the lots at $12-$17K. They don't advetise them because they don't have to. You also can't get any buyer's incentives on them, again because they sell themselves.